[Jrlooney88]

Looks like new project details have been submitted to the Evolve site

[tarheel1231]

Great find! I was on Evolve this morning but I didn’t see anything new. Can I add this to the Links and Information thread?

[Jrlooney88]

Absolutely, feel free to do so

[Grobble]

My, my, aren't we the Debbie Downer.

*No one is even comparing this to a Strata coaster. In terms of a Mack launch, it won't take much to be the tallest and fastest in that class.

*Again with the dive coaster, you will only have to be 1 foot taller to hold the record. Remember how they did the hypers. Each one was a few feet taller than the previous.

*On the cost of Icon, I can only go by what a park official said in an interview. I have no way or desire to dispute what he says. It is my understanding that Mack two launch coasters are expensive.

*Based on what you said about Cedar Point, Carowinds should have never gotten Fury, Intimidator, or the resort hotel this year. Carowinds is receiving attention because of future growth potential. Investors are forward planners with an eye towards future profits. There is even concern that the type of grow investors covet is not there for Cedar Point unless it expands it reach. Has Cedar Point even increased it's attendance in recent years? That last I saw, CP and KI had about the same attendance numbers.

The cost of Icon is 16.25 British Pounds...is on their own website in their press release. "The key milestone in the build of the world’s most interactive rollercoaster saw one of three 16-seater steel carriages installed onto the completed track for the first test run of the £16.25 million ride."

LOL..The notion that Carowinds is not prioritized over CP and you gathering that means that it means they should have never gotten Fury, Intimidator or the hotel is nonsense. You might want to actually listen to an investor presentation, conference calls, etc..Cedar Fair has stated since 2014 investor presentation on potential of the Carowinds market b/c it has a lot of "qualified visitors" that weren't attending. CF likes the income and demographics of the area, just like they do CGA. They see both as "low lying fruit", with easier growth and ROI than places like KI.

Cedar Point attendance andKIi attendance are 2 different animals. KI is a park with 3.3-4M attendance that is based heavily on locals, it's a lot of people that go to the park 10 or 20 times a year. KIactually often gets busier come 6pm b/c of people going after work. Most parks clear slightly come 6pm. Cedar Point is 3.6M and it's a lot of people from further away, it's a destination park. People come and stay for 3 or 4 days. The Breakers, Express, Lighthouse, Castaways are well booked most of the time. They added the new wing to Breakers this year. CP has about 200-300K more visitors, but has Revenue and EBIDTA of over double KI. That tells the difference in the visitor breakdown, CP has many vacation people that are spending big, buying all day dining, drinks, fast lane, staying in CP owned lodging, etc... Compared to KI locals who bolster the attendance coming 10 or 20 times a year on a $100 gold season pass. Cedar Fair in their investor presentations talked about KI as a mature market. Nice way to say any growth is going to be harder to produce and they aren't putting a hotel at KI. CP per caps are much higher than KI. There is no concern about CP, they produce the most revenue, EBIDTA, and produce the requisite ROI's on new additions. You might want to go to CP. I was there early June during the week and it had late June crowds, like when school is out, though they weren't yet. Fast Lane sales are up big early in the season, there is a reason Jason McClure is around the park beaming. Tony Clark half jokingly said fast lane plus will pay for Steel Vengeance alone. But, there is the truth that Fast lane plus sales are up in the early season and crowds.

[Capler]

My, my, aren't we the Debbie Downer.

*No one is even comparing this to a Strata coaster. In terms of a Mack launch, it won't take much to be the tallest and fastest in that class.

*Again with the dive coaster, you will only have to be 1 foot taller to hold the record. Remember how they did the hypers. Each one was a few feet taller than the previous.

*On the cost of Icon, I can only go by what a park official said in an interview. I have no way or desire to dispute what he says. It is my understanding that Mack two launch coasters are expensive.

*Based on what you said about Cedar Point, Carowinds should have never gotten Fury, Intimidator, or the resort hotel this year. Carowinds is receiving attention because of future growth potential. Investors are forward planners with an eye towards future profits. There is even concern that the type of grow investors covet is not there for Cedar Point unless it expands it reach. Has Cedar Point even increased it's attendance in recent years? That last I saw, CP and KI had about the same attendance numbers.

The cost of Icon is 16.25 British Pounds...is on their own website in their press release. "The key milestone in the build of the world’s most interactive rollercoaster saw one of three 16-seater steel carriages installed onto the completed track for the first test run of the £16.25 million ride."

LOL..The notion that Carowinds is not prioritized over CP and you gathering that means that it means they should have never gotten Fury, Intimidator or the hotel is nonsense. You might want to actually listen to an investor presentation, conference calls, etc..Cedar Fair has stated since 2014 investor presentation on potential of the Carowinds market b/c it has a lot of "qualified visitors" that weren't attending. CF likes the income and demographics of the area, just like they do CGA. They see both as "low lying fruit", with easier growth and ROI than places like KI.

Cedar Point attendance and Ki attendance are 2 different animals. Ki is a park with 3.3M attendance that is based almost wholly on locals, it's a lot of people that go to the park 10 or 20 times a year. Ki parks actually often gets busier come 6pm b/c of people going after work. Most parks clear slightly come 6pm. Cedar Point is 3.6M and it's a lot of people from further away, it's a destination park. People come and stay for 3 or 4 days. The Breakers, Express, Lighthouse, Castaways are well booked most of the time. They added the new wing this year to Breakers this year. CP has about 220K more visitors but has EBIDTA of over double KI. That tells the difference in the visitor breakdown, CP has many vacation people that are spending big, buying all day dining, drinks, fast lane, etc... compared to KI locals who bolster the attendance coming 10 or 20 times a year on a $100 gold season pass. Cedar Fair in their investor presentations talked about KI as a mature market. Nice way to say any growth is going to be harder to produce and they aren't putting a hotel at KI. CP per caps are much higher than KI. There is no concern about CP, they produce the most revenue, EBIDTA, and produce the requisite ROI's on new additions. You might want to go to CP, I was there early June during the week and it had laste JUne crowds like when school was out, though they weren't yet. Fast Lane sales are up big early in the season, there is a reason Jason McClure is around the park beaming. Tony Clark half jokingly said fast lane plus will Steel Vengeance alone. But, there is the truth that Fast lane plus sales are up in the early season and crowds.

I think we are basically saying the something. Since Carowinds is a undeserved market, the company can grow the revenue by increasing attendance, hence the big record breaking attractions to draw folk in. The Ohio marker is more mature, therefore they have to be a little more creative to extract more money from customers.

[Edwardo]

Knotts gets more people, but as the poster said, CP’s EBITDA is higher. Knotts is open year round and in the second largest metro area in the US...and really doesn’t beat CP by much. It’s also more expensive to operate and is in SoCal, where land is expensive. And taxes.

[fishels]

Maybe the tallest and fastest launch coaster in the southeast!?

That would be great! Just dreaming but how about the tallest and fastest launch coaster in the US or maybe even the world. HA! It’s nice to dream.

That dream may not be such a stretch if you look at Cedar Fair's past as it relates to installing signature coasters at their big parks. Next year's dive coaster will be a record breaker. Steel Vengeance is a record breaker for this year. Look at most of the big coasters that preceded them.

My feeling is that Cedar Fair will go all out on this one because, frankly, that is what they are known for. I expect it to have the fastest launch, and the tallest first drop of any of the other Mack two launchers. I saw an interview where Rob Decker stated they purposely raised the height of Steel Vengeance to over 200 ft. just so they could have that record. It was an ego thing just to show Six Flags how a hybrid should be done. Sorry kids, but that is simply the way our parent company rolls.

Cedar Fair is not going to spend nearly $30 million on this ride just so it can play second fiddle to another ride of the same type somewhere else on the planet. That information is on a solid footing, or a solid footer.

Then there is the little tidbit from the last quarterly report where Zimmerman elevated Carowinds to the Cedar Point level of priority. When you are at that level, you don't get 'seconds'. It does not hurt that Zimmerman lives on Lake Norman either.
Consider this, the untrained eye would think Canada's Wonderland is getting the big expensive priority project for next season. I mean it's a B&M and likely a record breaker right? The caveat here is that Valravn is only estimated to have cost between $18-$20 mil. The recently opened Icon cost $28 mil. As Fury was a few years back, this will be the anticipated project for the new season.

This is just something to think about as we wait for the announcement.

Question. Was the statement about Carowinds being on the same priority of cedar point the same quote about “cedar point of the south”.

Or are you talking about a different statement altogether?

[LoveMeSomePrunes]

...about KI as a mature market. Nice way to say any growth is going to be harder to produce and they aren't putting a hotel at KI...

It's not that carowinds is getting a hotel instead of kings island. KI years ago had a campground adjacent to the park which they sold to be developed into a Great Wolf Lodge which is next door and something on a scale much bigger of a deal than even Cedar Point has. KI isn't necessarily better or more valued than Carowinds, it's just a park that is farther along than Carowinds in terms of development. But KI is probably on a plateau compared to a rising trajectory for Carowinds which is catching up.

[BS1983CLT]

Does anyone ever use spell check on this forum? This is ridiculous. It makes this forum not as enjoyable.

Concentrate when you write... Use spaces and make sure you spell the words correctly.

Thanks.

[RW_Fury325]

Took a few photos last evening.



Lots of drills/diggers on site.

[Capler]

That would be great! Just dreaming but how about the tallest and fastest launch coaster in the US or maybe even the world. HA! It’s nice to dream.

That dream may not be such a stretch if you look at Cedar Fair's past as it relates to installing signature coasters at their big parks. Next year's dive coaster will be a record breaker. Steel Vengeance is a record breaker for this year. Look at most of the big coasters that preceded them.

My feeling is that Cedar Fair will go all out on this one because, frankly, that is what they are known for. I expect it to have the fastest launch, and the tallest first drop of any of the other Mack two launchers. I saw an interview where Rob Decker stated they purposely raised the height of Steel Vengeance to over 200 ft. just so they could have that record. It was an ego thing just to show Six Flags how a hybrid should be done. Sorry kids, but that is simply the way our parent company rolls.

Cedar Fair is not going to spend nearly $30 million on this ride just so it can play second fiddle to another ride of the same type somewhere else on the planet. That information is on a solid footing, or a solid footer.

Then there is the little tidbit from the last quarterly report where Zimmerman elevated Carowinds to the Cedar Point level of priority. When you are at that level, you don't get 'seconds'. It does not hurt that Zimmerman lives on Lake Norman either.
Consider this, the untrained eye would think Canada's Wonderland is getting the big expensive priority project for next season. I mean it's a B&M and likely a record breaker right? The caveat here is that Valravn is only estimated to have cost between $18-$20 mil. The recently opened Icon cost $28 mil. As Fury was a few years back, this will be the anticipated project for the new season.

This is just something to think about as we wait for the announcement.

Question. Was the statement about Carowinds being on the same priority of cedar point the same quote about “cedar point of the south”.

Or are you talking about a different statement altogether?

When the term Cedar Point of the South was first used a few years back, I paid it little attention. But since then, there seems to be something to it as it relates to the upgrades that have been made to the park. In terms of priority, I would say that Carowinds is of a higher priority. Investors are not focused on what a business is doing today, but instead they focus on where future profits are going to come from.

[ParkFamily]

Compared to RW_Fury325 's pics, some changes visible since Saturday 16th.

[Edwardo]

Cedar Poibt is still a higher priority than Carowinds. They just renovated and expanded Express. They added another tower to Breakers. They just demolished Sandcastke and added luxury camper spots. They just added more restaurants. The park takes in a lot of money because it’s on a beach and in a touristy area. That doesn’t mean Carowinds is getting the shaft but CP has so much untapped potential that they’re finally focusing on that Carowinds will never have.

So what was said was true. They most certainly are not prioritizing Carowinds over CP. They’re trying to get both Parks o be st their full potential. CP just has more potential with higher attendance and profits, and a larger potential customer base.

[tarheel1231]

It’s amazing how much the beach was underutilized before Ouimet. Cedar Point can be a vacation for anyone, not just those looking to go to a theme park. Carowinds doesn’t have that advantage.

[fonzlinney]

Compared to RW_Fury325 's pics, some changes visible since Saturday 16th.

Nice photos thank you for sharing