[fonzlinney]

That dream may not be such a stretch if you look at Cedar Fair's past as it relates to installing signature coasters at their big parks. Next year's dive coaster will be a record breaker. Steel Vengeance is a record breaker for this year. Look at most of the big coasters that preceded them.

My feeling is that Cedar Fair will go all out on this one because, frankly, that is what they are known for. I expect it to have the fastest launch, and the tallest first drop of any of the other Mack two launchers. I saw an interview where Rob Decker stated they purposely raised the height of Steel Vengeance to over 200 ft. just so they could have that record. It was an ego thing just to show Six Flags how a hybrid should be done. Sorry kids, but that is simply the way our parent company rolls.

Cedar Fair is not going to spend nearly $30 million on this ride just so it can play second fiddle to another ride of the same type somewhere else on the planet. That information is on a solid footing, or a solid footer.

Then there is the little tidbit from the last quarterly report where Zimmerman elevated Carowinds to the Cedar Point level of priority. When you are at that level, you don't get 'seconds'. It does not hurt that Zimmerman lives on Lake Norman either.
Consider this, the untrained eye would think Canada's Wonderland is getting the big expensive priority project for next season. I mean it's a B&M and likely a record breaker right? The caveat here is that Valravn is only estimated to have cost between $18-$20 mil. The recently opened Icon cost $28 mil. As Fury was a few years back, this will be the anticipated project for the new season.

This is just something to think about as we wait for the announcement.

Question. Was the statement about Carowinds being on the same priority of cedar point the same quote about “cedar point of the south”.

Or are you talking about a different statement altogether?

When the term Cedar Point of the South was first used a few years back, I paid it little attention. But since then, there seems to be something to it as it relates to the upgrades that have been made to the park. In terms of priority, I would say that Carowinds is of a higher priority. Investors are not focused on what a business is doing today, but instead they focus on where future profits are going to come from.

They do seem to be investing quite a bit more into Carowinds compared to the other parks,and as I said earlier the fact that they have moved some of their offices to Charlotte could prove to be bigger and better things to come for carowinds.

[Rosko97]

Cedar Poibt is still a higher priority than Carowinds. They just renovated and expanded Express. They added another tower to Breakers. They just demolished Sandcastke and added luxury camper spots. They just added more restaurants. The park takes in a lot of money because it’s on a beach and in a touristy area. That doesn’t mean Carowinds is getting the shaft but CP has so much untapped potential that they’re finally focusing on that Carowinds will never have.

So what was said was true. They most certainly are not prioritizing Carowinds over CP. They’re trying to get both Parks o be st their full potential. CP just has more potential with higher attendance and profits, and a larger potential customer base.

Sandusky is not a touristy area w/o Cedar Point. Charlotte actually has other things that bring people to the area, including the whitewater center, great wolf, nascar, other major sports teams, colleges, and the city itself. Carowinds is also right near a major international airport. I am not surprised that Cedar Fair sees this park as a pot of gold, tbh. Not disagreeing with you, but I do believe Carowinds has potential that CP won't always have. It can't exactly grow much bigger in physical size...

[Grobble]

That dream may not be such a stretch if you look at Cedar Fair's past as it relates to installing signature coasters at their big parks. Next year's dive coaster will be a record breaker. Steel Vengeance is a record breaker for this year. Look at most of the big coasters that preceded them.

My feeling is that Cedar Fair will go all out on this one because, frankly, that is what they are known for. I expect it to have the fastest launch, and the tallest first drop of any of the other Mack two launchers. I saw an interview where Rob Decker stated they purposely raised the height of Steel Vengeance to over 200 ft. just so they could have that record. It was an ego thing just to show Six Flags how a hybrid should be done. Sorry kids, but that is simply the way our parent company rolls.

Cedar Fair is not going to spend nearly $30 million on this ride just so it can play second fiddle to another ride of the same type somewhere else on the planet. That information is on a solid footing, or a solid footer.

Then there is the little tidbit from the last quarterly report where Zimmerman elevated Carowinds to the Cedar Point level of priority. When you are at that level, you don't get 'seconds'. It does not hurt that Zimmerman lives on Lake Norman either.
Consider this, the untrained eye would think Canada's Wonderland is getting the big expensive priority project for next season. I mean it's a B&M and likely a record breaker right? The caveat here is that Valravn is only estimated to have cost between $18-$20 mil. The recently opened Icon cost $28 mil. As Fury was a few years back, this will be the anticipated project for the new season.

This is just something to think about as we wait for the announcement.

Question. Was the statement about Carowinds being on the same priority of cedar point the same quote about “cedar point of the south”.

Or are you talking about a different statement altogether?

When the term Cedar Point of the South was first used a few years back, I paid it little attention. But since then, there seems to be something to it as it relates to the upgrades that have been made to the park. In terms of priority, I would say that Carowinds is of a higher priority. Investors are not focused on what a business is doing today, but instead they focus on where future profits are going to come from.

First, the "Cedar Point of the South", came from fanboys, This was never a statement by Cedar Fair in any conf call or investor presentation. Cedar Fair wording was "Thrill Capital of the Southeast.". back in 2014. A goal that is not really that hard to get to beating out Six Flags Over GA, Busch Gardens, Dollywood, Sea World, etc..They aren't competing ith Disney which is about family over thrills.

No, Carowinds is not on the same priority level of Cedar Point. CP is the flagship of the chain and thus is and always will be the #1 priority. It produces the most revenue/EBIDTA. There is a reason it gets so much though other parks patrons in the chain complain. Also, CP's revenue/EBIDTA is growing so their % of the chains revenue/EBIDTA is not falling since 2015 Carowinds initial investment, it has grown. CP has untapped revenue streams, they can build a new hotel in Sandcastles spot if they wanted and they would book it solid. They have the sports complex stuff and they are expanding that b/c the initial response beat their goals by over 20%. CP bought more land in town near the causeway. Potential site for another iteration of Express Hotel. There are also some upcoming changes on the peninsula regarding clearing older buildings(Cedar dorms on the peninsula) that have not been announced. Future and current profits are largely CP and KB dominated. AS others have grown recently with investment these parks are also growing. The parks that are losing % share in the revenue/EBIDTA pie are places lke WOF, VF, MIAdv.

[Jrlooney88]

Carowinds will never get CP treatment, its silly to think otherwise. The potential at Carowinds is HUGE though, just look at Charlotte in general, its absolutely blowing up, there are a dozen cranes in and around uptown with more coming, there are hundreds of people moving here by the week, new money being injected daily into this city. Investors know all of this, they know Charlotte is annually in the top 5 fastest growing cities, they see a higher ROI here, even if it's another 5 - 10 years out.

[Grobble]

They do seem to be investing quite a bit more into Carowinds compared to the other parks,and as I said earlier the fact that they have moved some of their offices to Charlotte could prove to be bigger and better things to come for carowinds.

The move of offices is about where execs want to live. They area around Cedar Point is not an area where execs that are making millions necessarily want to live compared to just outside Charlotte. Multi million dollar homes an exec would buy stick out like a sore thumb in the area. It's essentially farm land and small towns. Even if you go closer to Cleveland, it's Cleveland not the greatest of cities. Also, there is the fact Charlotte is much more convenient for travel.

[Capler]

Question. Was the statement about Carowinds being on the same priority of cedar point the same quote about “cedar point of the south”.

Or are you talking about a different statement altogether?

When the term Cedar Point of the South was first used a few years back, I paid it little attention. But since then, there seems to be something to it as it relates to the upgrades that have been made to the park. In terms of priority, I would say that Carowinds is of a higher priority. Investors are not focused on what a business is doing today, but instead they focus on where future profits are going to come from.

First, the "Cedar Point of the South", came from fanboys, This was never a statement by Cedar Fair in any conf call or investor presentation. Cedar Fair wording was "Thrill Capital of the Southeast.". back in 2014. A goal that is not really that hard to get to beating out Six Flags Over GA, Busch Gardens, Dollywood, Sea World, etc..They aren't competing ith Disney which is about family over thrills.

No, Carowinds is not on the same priority level of Cedar Point. CP is the flagship of the chain and thus is and always will be the #1 priority. It produces the most revenue/EBIDTA. There is a reason it gets so much though other parks patrons in the chain complain. Also, CP's revenue/EBIDTA is growing so their % of the chains revenue/EBIDTA is not falling since 2015 Carowinds initial investment, it has grown. CP has untapped revenue streams, they can build a new hotel in Sandcastles spot if they wanted and they would book it solid. They have the sports complex stuff and they are expanding that b/c the initial response beat their goals by over 20%. CP bought more land in town near the causeway. Potential site for another iteration of Express Hotel. There are also some upcoming changes on the peninsula regarding clearing older buildings(Cedar dorms on the peninsula) that have not been announced. Future and current profits are largely CP and KB dominated. AS others have grown recently with investment these parks are also growing. The parks that are losing % share in the revenue/EBIDTA pie are places lke WOF, VF, MIAdv.

If I'm not mistaken, the first I heard the term, "Cedar Point of the South" and "Gatekeeper like coaster" was when a presentation was made to the Charlotte council for funding. He basically said, it will be either you or Kings Dominion. I honestly don't think Kings Dominion was ever a consideration, they were only using them as leverage.

[Capler]

They do seem to be investing quite a bit more into Carowinds compared to the other parks,and as I said earlier the fact that they have moved some of their offices to Charlotte could prove to be bigger and better things to come for carowinds.

The move of offices is about where execs want to live. They area around Cedar Point is not an area where execs that are making millions necessarily want to live compared to just outside Charlotte. Multi million dollar homes an exec would buy stick out like a sore thumb in the area. It's essentially farm land and small towns. Even if you go closer to Cleveland, it's Cleveland not the greatest of cities. Also, there is the fact Charlotte is much more convenient for travel.

Charlotte already had corporate offices for Cedar Fair left over from Kings/Paramount days, and Zimmerman lives here so him staying here makes sense. But as you said Grob, I really don't see future CEO's going back to Ohio.

[Edwardo]

Cedar Poibt is still a higher priority than Carowinds. They just renovated and expanded Express. They added another tower to Breakers. They just demolished Sandcastke and added luxury camper spots. They just added more restaurants. The park takes in a lot of money because it’s on a beach and in a touristy area. That doesn’t mean Carowinds is getting the shaft but CP has so much untapped potential that they’re finally focusing on that Carowinds will never have.

So what was said was true. They most certainly are not prioritizing Carowinds over CP. They’re trying to get both Parks o be st their full potential. CP just has more potential with higher attendance and profits, and a larger potential customer base.

Sandusky is not a touristy area w/o Cedar Point. Charlotte actually has other things that bring people to the area, including the whitewater center, great wolf, nascar, other major sports teams, colleges, and the city itself. Carowinds is also right near a major international airport. I am not surprised that Cedar Fair sees this park as a pot of gold, tbh. Not disagreeing with you, but I do believe Carowinds has potential that CP won't always have. It can't exactly grow much bigger in physical size...

No, Sandusky isn’t only a tourist area because of the CP. it’s been a tourist area for over 100 years because of the beach! Cedar Point only sprung up because it was already a popular tourist area, with Put In Bay close and the fact that it’s RIGHT ON THE BEACH... CP is a product of Sandusky. Not the other way around. And like they still have plenty of room. The park has been around 150 years. They don’t need to expand in size any more than they already are. It’s a fallacy to think that a park must grow its boundaries to grow or maintain attendance. Obviously 150 years proves otherwise.

As for the corporate offices, those were shut down by Cedar Fair under Kinzel when they bought the parks. Only recently have they put a satellite home office back in charlotte. Because Charlotte doesn’t die in the winter.

[claxicorn]

Cedar Poibt is still a higher priority than Carowinds. They just renovated and expanded Express. They added another tower to Breakers. They just demolished Sandcastke and added luxury camper spots. They just added more restaurants. The park takes in a lot of money because it’s on a beach and in a touristy area. That doesn’t mean Carowinds is getting the shaft but CP has so much untapped potential that they’re finally focusing on that Carowinds will never have.

So what was said was true. They most certainly are not prioritizing Carowinds over CP. They’re trying to get both Parks o be st their full potential. CP just has more potential with higher attendance and profits, and a larger potential customer base.

Sandusky is not a touristy area w/o Cedar Point. Charlotte actually has other things that bring people to the area, including the whitewater center, great wolf, nascar, other major sports teams, colleges, and the city itself. Carowinds is also right near a major international airport. I am not surprised that Cedar Fair sees this park as a pot of gold, tbh. Not disagreeing with you, but I do believe Carowinds has potential that CP won't always have. It can't exactly grow much bigger in physical size...

No, Sandusky isn’t only a tourist area because of the CP. it’s been a tourist area for over 100 years because of the beach! Cedar Point only sprung up because it was already a popular tourist area, with Put In Bay close and the fact that it’s RIGHT ON THE BEACH... CP is a product of Sandusky. Not the other way around. And like they still have plenty of room. The park has been around 150 years. They don’t need to expand in size any more than they already are. It’s a fallacy to think that a park must grow its boundaries to grow or maintain attendance. Obviously 150 years proves otherwise.

As for the corporate offices, those were shut down by Cedar Fair under Kinzel when they bought the parks. Only recently have they put a satellite home office back in charlotte. Because Charlotte doesn’t die in the winter.

Cedar point still has plenty of room? What are they going to do, add a hundred million dollar expansion on the end of the peninsula?

It's bogus to think cedar fair moved their home office to charlotte because "Charlotte doesnt die in the winter". Carowinds has been growing considerably faster than any other Cedar Fair park besides CP. You seem to hate Carowinds for no reason, and its really showing in your statements. Grow up.

[Chris]

First, the "Cedar Point of the South", came from fanboys

You have been spot on with everything you said so now I am doubting myself but I would have bet big money that 'Cedar Point of the South' was from Cedar Fair and not a fanboy. Can someone confirm or deny?

Thanks!

[claxicorn]

First, the "Cedar Point of the South", came from fanboys

You have been spot on with everything you said so now I am doubting myself but I would have bet big money that 'Cedar Point of the South' was from Cedar Fair and not a fanboy. Can someone confirm or deny?

Thanks!

This one states that it was said by Cedar Fair, but I yet to find an actual article.

https://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/ca ... ce-grows/2

The user Swampfoxer stated at an event Kinzel & Helms (VP of marketing) stated (exact quote) that their goal is to make Carowinds the "Cedar Point of the South". Charlotte & Carowinds are in an ever so growing area and they intend to make Carowinds one of the best parks anywhere.

[fonzlinney]

First, the "Cedar Point of the South", came from fanboys

You have been spot on with everything you said so now I am doubting myself but I would have bet big money that 'Cedar Point of the South' was from Cedar Fair and not a fanboy. Can someone confirm or
Thanks!

This one states that it was said by Cedar Fair, but I yet to find an actual article.

https://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/ca ... ce-grows/2

The user Swampfoxer stated at an event Kinzel & Helms (VP of marketing) stated (exact quote) that their goal is to make Carowinds the "Cedar Point of the South". Charlotte & Carowinds are in an ever so growing area and they intend to make Carowinds one of the best parks anywhere.

confirmed and thanks . Big things coming to Carowinds . Wish there could be something done about this heat!

[Jrlooney88]

Found an old USA Today article with the quoted remarks:

"It won't happen in my lifetime," Ouimet said. "But Carowinds could become the Cedar Point of the South."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/bu ... /12414525/

[Christopher Mallis]

Nice photos that were taken a page back! It seems like they keep digging that hole more and more and it is turning into a rectangle. It seems that they have cleared some more trees over where the construction fence is near the games stand. It seems like they’re taking a slow start to footers or footings and there working on the home or “tunnel”.

[Edwardo]

The above quote by Ouimet (not a very old guy) is where CP of the south comes from.

And cedar point isn’t ever going to add a 100 million dollar expansion. Period. None of the parks are.

They didn’t open a satellite corporate office here because they intend on making Carowinds their top priority. Charlotte has moderate weather and is near an airport that’s a major hub. Six Flags corporate offices aren’t near their ol biggest pros, there in an area that benefits the corporation.

You folks can believe what you want but according to what the company has said publicly, in addition to private conversations I’ve been privy to with, and around their corporate people, I can assure you that you’re wrong. And that’s not my opinion.