[Edwardo]

No. None of what he said or implied is how it works and I guarantee you no one at the perk or in CF’s corporate has ever said anything along the lines of that.

Cedar Fair decides how much capital each park gets for improvements and additions and, if necessary, demolition. Parks have a five year plan. Once a park sets up their plans, they roughly know how they’re going to allocate said money, capital improvements, maintenance (painting, etc), and new rides. The park doesn’t have to “think” they can get funding for anything. They know that the corporate management team is going to give them an amount yearly.

Then, when a park decides what they’re going to do with the funds, they put each project or job out to bid. Companies come back with a bid.

If it’s for a new ride, unless the park is looking for something really specific, they put out to bid something like “We want to build X type of ride and we’re Spending X amount of money budgeted for the project”. Then they review and select a bid. It isn’t standard practice for a park to say “we want a new ride from THIS SPECIFIC COMPANY”.

Parks look at and select the bids that meet their demographics and offer the best return on investment.

They don’t secure funding. They don’t ask for a loan and hope they get it approved, so there’s no need for them to “be confident they can get funding”, because they know it’s a given they’ll get funding each Myers for capital investments and improvements.

They also don’t look at a “process of figuring out how to get an RMC”. The park only cares about who will offer what they want within the budget and is easy to work with and will deliver on time. They’re not going to approach RMC. They put it out to bid.

Fun fact, neither Mean Streak nor Hurler were intended to be converted to RMCs initially. RMC responded to a bid and came back with “We can do this for $XXX”. The contract was signed around PPP time one year, and people that I know that know things were talking about it then.

[Glitch99]

You're hung up on the word "funding". It isnt the same as "financing". Someone, be it at park level or corporate level, approves all spending, thus it "gets funded". Checks dont write themselves.

At some level, a budget is approved and bills are paid by someone for maintenance supplies. That is "getting funding" for garbage bags. Projects and ideas dont appear out of thin air, they're proposed and the money is allocated/approved. No one gets a blank check to just do whatever they want.

[RollerBee]

531DEF93-9C0B-42E6-9E7D-090098E8D86F.jpeg (179.57KiB)Viewed 4012 times

[Grobble]

Fun fact, neither Mean Streak nor Hurler were intended to be converted to RMCs initially. RMC responded to a bid and came back with “We can do this for $XXX”. The contract was signed around PPP time one year, and people that I know that know things were talking about it then.

LOL....That's not at all how it occurred.

[Edwardo]

You're hung up on the word "funding". It isnt the same as "financing". Someone, be it at park level or corporate level, approves all spending, thus it "gets funded". Checks dont write themselves.

At some level, a budget is approved and bills are paid by someone for maintenance supplies. That is "getting funding" for garbage bags. Projects and ideas dont appear out of thin air, they're proposed and the money is allocated/approved. No one gets a blank check to just do whatever they want.

I’m not hung up on the word funding, I’m hung up on the word CAN. You seem to be focused on funding. It doesn’t matter if you call it funding, cash, capital, coin, dollars, cheddar, rupies, yen, reichmarks or whatever. The OP said that the park is ‘confident it CAN get the funding’. No. That implied that there’s some chance that they can’t get the funding for some reason. The park knows well ahead of time how much they’re going to get for a budget. It’s not “will we get money for an RMC soon?” That’s not at all how it works. The park WILL get the funding to add new capital investments. Then they’ll put out a project to bid the. They’ll choose the best bid for their park. There’s no CAN about it.

[Edwardo]

Fun fact, neither Mean Streak nor Hurler were intended to be converted to RMCs initially. RMC responded to a bid and came back with “We can do this for $XXX”. The contract was signed around PPP time one year, and people that I know that know things were talking about it then.

LOL....That's not at all how it occurred.

I have receipts that say otherwise. Do you? Post yours. I’ll return in kind.

[Glitch99]

You're hung up on the word "funding". It isnt the same as "financing". Someone, be it at park level or corporate level, approves all spending, thus it "gets funded". Checks dont write themselves.

At some level, a budget is approved and bills are paid by someone for maintenance supplies. That is "getting funding" for garbage bags. Projects and ideas dont appear out of thin air, they're proposed and the money is allocated/approved. No one gets a blank check to just do whatever they want.

I’m not hung up on the word funding, I’m hung up on the word CAN. You seem to be focused on funding. It doesn’t matter if you call it funding, cash, capital, coin, dollars, cheddar, rupies, yen, reichmarks or whatever. The OP said that the park is ‘confident it CAN get the funding’. No. That implied that there’s some chance that they can’t get the funding for some reason. The park knows well ahead of time how much they’re going to get for a budget. It’s not “will we get money for an RMC soon?” That’s not at all how it works. The park WILL get the funding to add new capital investments. Then they’ll put out a project to bid the. They’ll choose the best bid for their park. There’s no CAN about it.

He didnt say the park is confident they can get funding. He said "they" are trying. "They" could be just part of the planning team, hoping their pet project is what's approved to move forward. It could also be that a preferred project has been identified, but the projected cost (or maybe even preliminary bids) have come in a bit higher than what's been allocated to the park. So yes, there are a number of ways and perspectives where "can" is part of the equation.

You even said as much with "The park knows well ahead of time how much they’re going to get for a budget. The park WILL get the funding to add new capital investments. Then they’ll put out a project to bid the. They’ll choose the best bid for their park. " The budget isnt "build a new roller coaster", with a blank check to cover whatever they come up with. The bid has to come in within the budget, or you need to either find a cheaper project or secure more funding.

[Edwardo]

Seriously? “They” is the park, regardless of who on the park makes decisions. “They” don’t have ‘pet projects’.

You’re trying to back up his arguement by rearranging what I’ve said. It doesn’t work the way he thinks it is. Regardless, again, the park isn’t trying to get an RMC. They’ll put it out to bid and see who gives them the best bid. Period.

Continue to argue all you want. Some people here may know upper management at parks. I have connections much higher than that. Besides, his post history is all about him wanting Carowinds to get an RMC. Maybe they will. But I guarantee you there are currently no talks from anyone inside Cedar Fair “trying to figure out how to get an RMC”.

If anything there are either bids out for a project, or they’ve accepted a bid from a company that could very well be RMC. Or not. But even that isn’t likely at this point.

[Glitch99]

Seriously? “They” is the park, regardless of who on the park makes decisions. “They” don’t have ‘pet projects’.

Seriously? You're going to claim the park isn't run by a bunch of free thinking individuals who have their own independent thoughts and ideas, and that plans do not go through some sort of a proposal and approval process?

If anything there are either bids out for a project, or they’ve accepted a bid from a company that could very well be RMC.

And if they like the proposal from RMC (or whoever) the best, but it exceeds their initial capital allocation for the project?

Claim he's wrong all you want. But its because the information is wrong, not because "it doesn't work that way".

[Edwardo]

You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth that I didn’t say. Regardless of what you know about other corporations and how they work, I know how lots of decisions are made at Cedar Fair. When Dick Kinzel was the CEO, free thinking at parks was not encouraged and parks were told what they would be getting. That’s more relaxed, but ultimately it’s a business and the people at the park and company will make decisions based on what is best for the business. They don’t think “Oh, we need an RMC”. That’s what Brian has been saying and implying.

They ‘like’ a bid that fits their budget and checks off the boxes they need it to. That’s how businesses run. And if a proposal comes in that’s over budget, yes. They reject it. In fact some major coasters and rides would have been built by other companies had their bids been within budget. Two that come immediately to mind are Millennium Force and shoot the rapids. A high profile company bid on both projects, but the amount if money it would have cost at the time was more than they wanted to budget for the project. That’s kind of the point of a bid...

Keep trying tho.

[Glitch99]

They ‘like’ a bid that fits their budget and checks off the boxes they need it to. That’s how businesses run. And if a proposal comes in that’s over budget, yes. They reject it. In fact some major coasters and rides would have been built by other companies had their bids been within budget. Two that come immediately to mind are Millennium Force and shoot the rapids. A high profile company bid on both projects, but the amount if money it would have cost at the time was more than they wanted to budget for the project. That’s kind of the point of a bid...

The entirety of what you've been saying has been based on the premise there is no "wanting". Now there's wanting?

It's rather ridiculous to clam that any bid that comes in over budget is summarily rejected. If it's a proposal everyone really likes and prefers, you seriously dont think they may consider revisiting the budget before outright rejecting it? They'll automatically settle for a less desirable option, without the slightest inclination to see if they can get approval to spend a little more for something everyone loves?

[coasterbruh]

And if they like the proposal from RMC (or whoever) the best, but it exceeds their initial capital allocation for the project?

They will proceed with a different company like busch gardens did for drachen fire. B&M couldn't provide both Kumba and Drachen Fire so you know what happen, instead of them waiting for B&M to be free like someone would for a pet project, they moved on to arrow. Distereous as it may be it goes to show that parks are a business and not ran by fanboys.

[Edwardo]

No. You’re hung up on stuff I’m not saying at all. My argument hasn’t changed.

Will they accept a bid that’s over budget? Possibly! But that’s an exception and not the rule. And it depends on how much over.

Here’s a real world example: when Cedar Fair put Shoot the Rapids out for a bid, a company that makes very reliable rides, but has never made a water ride and wanted to add that to their portfolio made a proposal. Cedar Point was looking for a high capacity water ride. But the cost that that company gave was not a price they wanted to pay, and they rejected it. Intamin got the project. The GP didn’t know or care that the other company makes higher quality rides. They just knew CP got a new ride.

Perhaps the current management, who has a very different approach, would have accepted the higher build, and StR would still be at CP. and I’m sure there were people in upper management that would have preferred that. But they went with the bid that the management at the time felt Gave them the best and most cost effective product. Current management doesn’t really work with Intamin any more and have a different approach, but they still do the same process.

Are there variables that can make them choose a higher bid? Absolutely!

That still doesn’t mean that what Op said was true. The park is not trying to figure out how to add an RMC. Period. They’re either going to accept a bid when they put a project out or reject it. They’re not confident they’ll get funding any more than I’m confident I’ll get my pay check. Because I know that I am guaranteed that money. His post implied that there were variables that aren’t there. Period.

If you want to keep trying to argue things I never said instead of the incorrect info he stated, fine. Keep changing what you’re arguing and putting words in my mouth. You’re failure to agree doesn’t make facts I’ve stated wrong.

“They'll automatically settle for a less desirable option, without the slightest inclination to see if they can get approval to spend a little more for something everyone loves?”

Feelings aren’t facts. Parks know that the general public do not care what company makes a ride, and ride manufacturers make what the parks want. Example: the layouts for Vekoma and Intamin’s proposals for Energlandias hyper were similar. They weren’t with intamin. And no park guest was any the wiser about it.

Parks are businesses. So are ride manufacturers and they’ve (mostly) all upped their game to offer what parks want so that they win bids. See:Vekoma.

[Glitch99]

Are there variables that can make them choose a higher bid? Absolutely!

So now it can work that way?

That still doesn’t mean that what soap said was true. The park is not trying to figure out how to add an RMC. Period.

You're the one who jumped to the conclusion that "the park" decided to build a RMC, and is now trying to figure out how to make it happen. Based solely on what was said, it just as easily could mean that RMC happened to make the most preferred proposal/what best fits the parameters of the project/had the most productive initial discussions, but it is (or is likely to end up) a little beyond the original budget. It wasnt even defined if "the park" felt that way, or a certain subset of individuals within "the park" are the ones with the preference and are lobbying for the final decision to go that way.

[RollerBee]

No. You’re hung up on stuff I’m not saying at all. My argument hasn’t changed.

Will they accept a bid that’s over budget? Possibly! But that’s an exception and not the rule. And it depends on how much over.

Here’s a real world example: when Cedar Fair put Shoot the Rapids out for a bid, a company that makes very reliable rides, but has never made a water ride and wanted to add that to their portfolio made a proposal. Cedar Point was looking for a high capacity water ride. But the cost that that company gave was not a price they wanted to pay, and they rejected it. Intamin got the project. The GP didn’t know or care that the other company makes higher quality rides. They just knew CP got a new ride.

Perhaps the current management, who has a very different approach, would have accepted the higher build, and StR would still be at CP. and I’m sure there were people in upper management that would have preferred that. But they went with the bid that the management at the time felt Gave them the best and most cost effective product. Current management doesn’t really work with Intamin any more and have a different approach, but they still do the same process.

Are there variables that can make them choose a higher bid? Absolutely!

That still doesn’t mean that what Op said was true. The park is not trying to figure out how to add an RMC. Period. They’re either going to accept a bid when they put a project out or reject it. They’re not confident they’ll get funding any more than I’m confident I’ll get my pay check. Because I know that I am guaranteed that money. His post implied that there were variables that aren’t there. Period.

If you want to keep trying to argue things I never said instead of the incorrect info he stated, fine. Keep changing what you’re arguing and putting words in my mouth. You’re failure to agree doesn’t make facts I’ve stated wrong.

“They'll automatically settle for a less desirable option, without the slightest inclination to see if they can get approval to spend a little more for something everyone loves?”

Feelings aren’t facts. Parks know that the general public do not care what company makes a ride, and ride manufacturers make what the parks want. Example: the layouts for Vekoma and Intamin’s proposals for Energlandias hyper were similar. They weren’t with intamin. And no park guest was any the wiser about it.

Parks are businesses. So are ride manufacturers and they’ve (mostly) all upped their game to offer what parks want so that they win bids. See:Vekoma.

Can I jump into this drama, my popcorn bucket has ran out!

Who put in a bid for Shoot The Rapids but got rejected?

You said higher quality and never made one before, in my mind that leaves one company; B&M.

Did I leave the Flume with that guess?