[phareous]

From a mechanical standpoint, the ride really is simple. You have 4 pumps. You have a few sets of conveyor belts, and 2 hydraulic arms. There are also sensors that detect the boats in the station, and usually when it was broke it was due to the sensors/computer being out of sync. Also one time the arm fell off and had to be welded back. There really isn't any trough maintenance...its just a concrete chute with a few logs bolted to the bottom. The geysers were just air compressors and they were usually permanently broke anyway. They long ago took out the whirlpool pump, the wave makers, and ultimately the entire cave/waterfalls. Water-wise, I know they can fill it with well water, and electrical-wise you're paying for those huge pumps to run. The whole time I was there they only changed the water once/cleaned out the pond, and that was only because employees complained about how nasty it was (this was in the 90s).

Now there could be some factors we don't know about...like maybe the boats were nearing end of life and they didn't want to buy new ones. I still think it was due to the cost of having that many employees to run the ride...I don't think any of the other rides come anywhere near needing that many employees. Or maybe they just want the prime real estate for some new ride they are planning. I suspect we'll never know the true reasons, and if anyone did know, they would probably get in trouble for divulging it

[Edwardo]

You don’t honestly think that from the 90s until now those pumps don’t cost more and more to maintain, the concrete trough with water rushing in it doesn’t need maintained, etc?

That’s 30 years of use and those pumps and sensors and conveyor belts get more expensive to maintain and replace.

I don’t mean it isn’t simple in what it is, it’s not simple to maintain any machinery after decades of use. In context, it’s not a ‘simple ride’. It’s old and it costs to maintain and replace stuff.

[Justin]

I would not be surprised if they move to a membership program like Busch Gardens and Six Flags, with an extra charge for Scarowinds and WinterFest. I'm not a fan of that. But with the possibility that the membership program would include access to all Cedar Fair parks just like Six Flags does.

[uscbandfan]

Well, I hope that Gold pass users aren't up-charged for SCarowinds and Winterfest. Being able to go there basically justifies the expense in our budget. They take those away from Gold pass users, then they will not be seeing me at Scarowinds or Winterfest anymore.

Money is tight for most (and for me). Hopefully they'll wake up and not keep trying to think of ways to gouging the customers.

On a SLIGHTLY related note, Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta actually lowered their concession prices significantly last year and guess what?????.... THEY MADE MORE MONEY. It's because they ended up with more sales. As a result, they've lowered their concession prices again this year by an average of 50 cents an item.

Other venues need to take note. Better for the customer, more money for the organization. Heck, if Carowinds lowered their drink prices, I'd actually drink something other than free water every time I go. Something to think about...

[BrianH1970]

Well, I hope that Gold pass users aren't up-charged for SCarowinds and Winterfest. Being able to go there basically justifies the expense in our budget. They take those away from Gold pass users, then they will not be seeing me at Scarowinds or Winterfest anymore.

Money is tight for most (and for me). Hopefully they'll wake up and not keep trying to think of ways to gouging the customers.

On a SLIGHTLY related note, Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta actually lowered their concession prices significantly last year and guess what?????.... THEY MADE MORE MONEY. It's because they ended up with more sales. As a result, they've lowered their concession prices again this year by an average of 50 cents an item.

Other venues need to take note. Better for the customer, more money for the organization. Heck, if Carowinds lowered their drink prices, I'd actually drink something other than free water every time I go. Something to think about...

I don't see them up-charging for Scarowinds and Winterfest. Evenso, when you look at the plans for a place like Six Flags Great Adventure, it's basically the same as our gold passes for Carowinds. Granted much more expensive due to the region but the same principle.

[Glitch99]

$30 for unlimited drinks can't get much lower (and you don't even have to carry around a souvenir cup if you don't want to)... But yes. $5 for a single serve drink is ridiculous. Last visit, I was in line behind a group of teens each paying nearly $25 for 3 chicken fingers and a small drink. It baffles me how some don't even think twice about it.

I would prefer they exclude Scarowinds and Christmas from the season passes (or limit admissions) rather than raise the pass price, if those are the two options on the table. Especially for the crazy crowds at Halloween, they really should do something to capture more revenue and cull the herd a bit. With nonstop lines everywhere as it is, additional passholders entering the gate for free isn't adding anything except frustration for everyone. I am curious how many tickets are sold for Scarowinds, without knowing that it's impossible to know what strategy would be "best".

[Grobble]

I would not be surprised if they move to a membership program like Busch Gardens and Six Flags, with an extra charge for Scarowinds and WinterFest. I'm not a fan of that. But with the possibility that the membership program would include access to all Cedar Fair parks just like Six Flags does.

If Cedar Fair moves to a membership, I don't see them doing SF style of any membership gets you into all parks, like a pass gets you into all the parks. CF would only make higher level memberships eligible for all park access and make it at a price level just like Platinum passes. CF does not give away the farm like SF. I see the membership possibly having a better loyalty program, which they tested at some parks this year.

The main benefit for memberships would by loyalty program or perks b/c CF already had the 9 months payments on passes, 11 months at some parks. One of reasons many people switched to Six Flags memberships when they started the tiered levels last year was they never offered payment plans on passes. Not having to pay upfront in full was enticing, even though they essentially were charging you $20 + more per year for the Gold pass benefits . It was split over 12 months instead of the lump sum which could be taxing for some if you were buying for a family.

[BrianH1970]

$30 for unlimited drinks can't get much lower (and you don't even have to carry around a souvenir cup if you don't want to)... But yes. $5 for a single serve drink is ridiculous. Last visit, I was in line behind a group of teens each paying nearly $25 for 3 chicken fingers and a small drink. It baffles me how some don't even think twice about it.

I would prefer they exclude Scarowinds and Christmas from the season passes (or limit admissions) rather than raise the pass price, if those are the two options on the table. Especially for the crazy crowds at Halloween, they really should do something to capture more revenue and cull the herd a bit. With nonstop lines everywhere as it is, additional passholders entering the gate for free isn't adding anything except frustration for everyone. I am curious how many tickets are sold for Scarowinds, without knowing that it's impossible to know what strategy would be "best".

And then the areas where they do make a ton of money, food and concessions, during a very limited period of time takes a massive hit. A lot less folks to spend 25 dollars on the chicken fingers and a drink. Or a Copperhead Strike or Fury 325 shirt. No way would they exclude or limit visits at those times of the year. Trust me, Carowinds loves those crowds as much as we may dislike them. Every time we go through the turnstiles it looks better and better for their investors, even if it's with passes.

[Grobble]

$30 for unlimited drinks can't get much lower (and you don't even have to carry around a souvenir cup if you don't want to)... But yes. $5 for a single serve drink is ridiculous.

II t could get lower, it could be free upgrade for a certain level passes or memberhips and free if you have a meal plan, like SF. So, a ton of people have free unlimited drinks, thus lines are long to get a refill. The $30 drink plan is essentially a must if you have a season pass. 1 summer day you will would spend that much on individual drinks. There have been hot days where I'm getting a paper cup refill on Powerade every hour to stay hydrated, I spend between 15+ days at CF parks in a year so I get my monies worth, as well with the all park dining plan.

[BrianH1970]

$30 for unlimited drinks can't get much lower (and you don't even have to carry around a souvenir cup if you don't want to)... But yes. $5 for a single serve drink is ridiculous.

II t could get lower, it could be free upgrade for a certain level passes or memberhips and free if you have a meal plan, like SF. So, a ton of people have free unlimited drinks, thus lines are long to get a refill. The $30 drink plan is essentially a must if you have a season pass. 1 summer day you will would spend that much on individual drinks. There have been hot days where I'm getting a paper cup refill on Powerade every hour to stay hydrated, I spend between 15+ days at CF parks in a year so I get my monies worth, as well with the all park dining plan.

When we renew our gold passes next year we're getting that drink plan on the first day. We got it one brutally hot day and had it pay for itself by the afternoon. I think all of our refills were already free on the second visit. Never again will I go without that drink plan. They could raise the price on that and I'd still be all in.

[Glitch99]

$30 for unlimited drinks can't get much lower (and you don't even have to carry around a souvenir cup if you don't want to)... But yes. $5 for a single serve drink is ridiculous.

II t could get lower, it could be free upgrade for a certain level passes or memberhips and free if you have a meal plan, like SF. So, a ton of people have free unlimited drinks, thus lines are long to get a refill. The $30 drink plan is essentially a must if you have a season pass. 1 summer day you will would spend that much on individual drinks. There have been hot days where I'm getting a paper cup refill on Powerade every hour to stay hydrated, I spend between 15+ days at CF parks in a year so I get my monies worth, as well with the all park dining plan.

When we renew our gold passes next year we're getting that drink plan on the first day. We got it one brutally hot day and had it pay for itself by the afternoon. I think all of our refills were already free on the second visit. Never again will I go without that drink plan. They could raise the price on that and I'd still be all in.

By the end of the year, we've ended up paying about a dime (literally 10¢) per drink.

[Glitch99]

$30 for unlimited drinks can't get much lower (and you don't even have to carry around a souvenir cup if you don't want to)... But yes. $5 for a single serve drink is ridiculous. Last visit, I was in line behind a group of teens each paying nearly $25 for 3 chicken fingers and a small drink. It baffles me how some don't even think twice about it.

I would prefer they exclude Scarowinds and Christmas from the season passes (or limit admissions) rather than raise the pass price, if those are the two options on the table. Especially for the crazy crowds at Halloween, they really should do something to capture more revenue and cull the herd a bit. With nonstop lines everywhere as it is, additional passholders entering the gate for free isn't adding anything except frustration for everyone. I am curious how many tickets are sold for Scarowinds, without knowing that it's impossible to know what strategy would be "best".

And then the areas where they do make a ton of money, food and concessions, during a very limited period of time takes a massive hit. A lot less folks to spend 25 dollars on the chicken fingers and a drink. Or a Copperhead Strike or Fury 325 shirt. No way would they exclude or limit visits at those times of the year. Trust me, Carowinds loves those crowds as much as we may dislike them. Every time we go through the turnstiles it looks better and better for their investors, even if it's with passes.

People routinely complain about waiting hours for food. Granted, it's tough to hit the sweet spot, but it is possible to thin out the crowd without affecting those sales totals. Especially if you are restricting season passholders who are using all-season dining plans to "buy" their food; eliminating those season passholders could actually increase revenue if their spot in line is replaced by someone paying cash for their food.

And I highly doubt a season passholders is going to fight the crowds to buy a Fury shirt during Scarowinds, but refuse to buy it during any other visit to the park during the year. For season passes, food (and maybe lockers?) is the primary visit-specific spending opportunity. Other money is spent, but it isn't tied to a specific visit.

As I said, knowing the mix of ticket sales to season passholders is essential to predicting the effect any change would have. If Scarowinds attendance is 80% season passholders, restricting season pass access would obviously have a drastic negative effect.

[Grobble]

I would prefer they exclude Scarowinds and Christmas from the season passes (or limit admissions) rather than raise the pass price, if those are the two options on the table. Especially for the crazy crowds at Halloween, they really should do something to capture more revenue and cull the herd a bit. With nonstop lines everywhere as it is, additional passholders entering the gate for free isn't adding anything except frustration for everyone. I am curious how many tickets are sold for Scarowinds, without knowing that it's impossible to know what strategy would be "best".

Excluding Scarowinds & Winterfest from season passes or limit admission would be bad business. The business move is to continue to drive guaranteed income by enticing people to buy a higher level pass that includes the events, which is what they do now via difference between Silver & Gold. Pass holders aren't really "coming for free", they paid for a higher cost pass for the benefit. CF wants as much money deferred/guaranteed money as possible over trying to entice people to come & pay more...ir.. if they excluded events from passes. Deferred revenue via passes is a great hedge against bad weather and other random stuff that can effect attendance. Also, the more pass holders come during the season and/or for events, the more likely they will see the value in buying all season products like dining & drink passes. Again, the all season products are guaranteed revenue.

[Glitch99]

When at capacity (not technically, but "really busy"), a season passholders eating on their all-season dining plan and drinking from their all-season souvenir cup is a net negative. Sure, there an off chance they may chose to buy a shirt or something, but they'll probably buy that shirt at some point anyways (it's not tied to that specific visit).

It's not black or white. They balance the value needed to entice the "all-season" sales, with the presence of those all-season customers taking away from the daily pay customers. They could limit season passes to weekdays only and vastly improve the weekend experience, but that'd certainly kill season pass sales. However, does restricting Scarowinds access affect the season pass value to where a significant number of people won't buy it? I don't know - but it could go either way.

[BrianH1970]

When at capacity (not technically, but "really busy"), a season passholders eating on their all-season dining plan and drinking from their all-season souvenir cup is a net negative. Sure, there an off chance they may chose to buy a shirt or something, but they'll probably buy that shirt at some point anyways (it's not tied to that specific visit).

It's not black or white. They balance the value needed to entice the "all-season" sales, with the presence of those all-season customers taking away from the daily pay customers. They could limit season passes to weekdays only and vastly improve the weekend experience, but that'd certainly kill season pass sales. However, does restricting Scarowinds access affect the season pass value to where a significant number of people won't buy it? I don't know - but it could go either way.

It would destroy season pass sales if it were limited to weekdays, and put a massive dent in the park financially. Personally there's no way I'd bother anymore. And with that would go any shot of me buying a drink plan or a meal plan if I went back to going once or twice a year and bringing my own food and drinks.

Restricting or limiting access devalues every every pass and plan they offer. Folks know in advance 'x' amount of dollars can get me into this, this, this, and that. The 30 dollar drink plan can be used every time I go to this, this, this, and that, aong with the meal plan. Take away or limit a this or a that, and the value clear across the board decreases. It's the nature of most restrictions.

Really, the bottom line is more that Carowinds would rather see a packed park with a boatload of foot traffic going by every restaurant and concession than worry about the few people those large crowds turn away. If I had to wager I'd say more than the usual amount that walk into Scarowinds and Winterfest aren't pass holders just based on how busy those weekends get. You're not going to calm those crowds that much by restricting access.