[Jonathan]

Wood returns to Cedar Fair.

<a href='http://www.valleyfair.com/public/attractions/rides/thrill_rides/renegade.cfm' target='_blank'>http://www.valleyfair.com/public/attractio...es/renegade.cfm</a>

Build one at Carowinds plz.

[KenB]

Very good news to see that CF is investing in new wood AND that they're getting someone good to make it! Not only that, but they're using Millennium Flyer trains too (as they should!).

Hopefully this will lay to rest any fears that CF is anti-wood. Now, I wouldn't start looking for one at the Paramount parks just yet - all except PGA have multiple wooden coasters already. I'd love to see one at Carowinds, but am not going to expect it any time soon.

Maybe, though, with CF thinking "wood is good" they'll improve some of the rides they already have with some TLC, regular lubrication, etc.

KenB

[CoasterDad]

Sweet! Now we know where our CW profits are headed... to better the old CF parks! That is, the CF parks prior to the buyout of the Paramount parks. With CP, VF, KBF and perhaps DP headed for new coasters it will effectively leave little in the CF "till" for any decent improvements on the Paramount Parks, not in the near future at least...but I'm sure they'll commit some $$ for more garbage cans... <_<

[Jonathan]

These coasters were in the works before the Paramount Parks purchase even happened.

I haven't heard anything about coasters for Knotts and Dorney.

[coasterholic14]

mmmmmmmmmmm...look at those great curves

[coasterbruh]

Yeah hats off to cedar fair for making some good changes lately. Who knows, I just may start to like them

[swampfox43]

Glad to see CF going for some GCII wood. Thankfully CF tends to buy from Intamin, B&M and now GCII is in the mix. They've only installed 1 Vekoma in all their parks and that was World's of Fun in 2000.

I have to wonder now when Carowinds may get another coaster. ValleyFairs last coaster was in 2003 (Intamin Shuttle launch) and CF has yet to add any new coasters to Geauga Lake (acquired in 2004) and Michigan's Adventure (acquired in 2001).

But, given how Carowinds is in a bigger market area than those 2 parks, we may be seeing something sooner than later. After all, 2008 will mark 4 years since we've had a coaster. Keepin' my fingers crossed!

[Edwardo]

Cedar Fair tends to build something new at their parks almost every year. Two things they do, I really like:

1. They build coasters where they're needed due to attendance.

Why is that good? Michigan's Adventure has had new stuff added since 2001, just not a coaster. They're also not a highly attended park. CF knows when to add a new coaster for more attendance. The 5 Paramount Parks had great attendance, Carowinds included, so they'll likely continue to get new coasters. However, remember that PCar has gotten Five coasters in 8 years.

In the 'off seasons', they added Scoob (A needed dark family ride), an updated Kid's area with family flats, and 'upgraded' their water park (even with CF, I'd expect that to get even more in the next couple of years). So I wouldn't expect to get a lot of new coasters or a coaster with the frequency they have in the past few years. But they will get one when needed. I wouldn't say that they'll wait as long as they have for MiA.

2. When not adding coasters, CF adds SOMETHING, usually flats.

Why is that good? Again, look at MiA. They've received thrilling flats and a much needed rapids ride. PCar just got a bunch of family rides either re-furbed or new. I doubt they'll need to do that again. But what Carowinds really needs is some adult flats. Cedar Point added some. Knott's added some. GL brought some back. Other CF parks have added some.

Thankfully, CF and Paramount have a similar attraction addition plan, so I think things will be good. Just take a look at the parks for the last couple of years:

GL, PKI, PGA, PCar got a new and/or improved water park. CP got an indoor one.

Knott's, MiA, CP, DP, VF, WoF, PKI, PKD, PCW have all gotten some adult flats in the past few years as well.

PCar, PKD, PKI, PCW, CP, VF, Knott's, WoF, DP have all gotten new thrill AND/OR family coasters (often times both) since 2000. In fact, the only 3 parks that haven't are the 2 newest acquited by CF, and I can see why. GLP hasn't warranted a new coaster, and needed something (like a new water park) to take over the animal side, and MiA needed what it has gotten as well. Then there is PGA. I honestly don't know why it hasn't gotten a new coaster and why they got rid of 2 of their coasters. I hope that changes under CF.

And then look at the parks that each company managed and didn't own. MoA got a new coaster under CF. Bonfante hasn't needed one as it just opened in 2001, and PP did a great job with the park so far.

I honestly think we'll see some more adult flats at Carowinds in the next couple of years. A top spin, maybe something from S&S, hopefully something like an Afterburner. I wouldn't expect Carowinds to get a new big coaster for at least a couple of years myself.

I also think you'll see more spinning coasters at both the former Paramount Parks and some other CF parks. I think Knott's will get one. I think PKI, PKD, and Carowinds are good candidates. I also think you'll end up seeing some type of B&M and/or Intamin pop upt at the Paramount Parks. One thing about CF buying PKI is that now the non-compete clause with B&M is pretty much null. Unless you're thinking Standup, and they've already gotten rid of one of those, a perfectly good one.

I see a slight shift in direction for the former Paramount Parks, but nothing too drastic. Save, possibly, for themeing, in which case I think we'll continue to see Nick, which I could see expanded to CP and other CFLP parks, and I figure we'll keep seeing the BORG at Carowinds for as long as CFLP continues to operate Star Trek: The Experience, as most likely the Trek licensing will extend to BORG thru that for as long as CFLP keeps the Experience (They'd be silly not to keep the contract. It costs as much to do that as it does to get in most of CFLP's parks. But it's worth it ).

I think we'll see coaster companies we've not seen before or seen much of pop up at Paramount Parks. And I think we'll see PGA get something finally . I also see more adult flats.

On the flip side, I see more family rides and kids stuff cropping up at CF parks.

I think this was a smart move overall. I can't wait to see how things start out next season.

[coasterholic14]

^ I pretty much agree with everything you said. And to add on one thing, CF also knows how to balance coasters relatively well, thrill coasters, family coasters, in-betweeners, etc. Now, while carowinds has gotten 5 coasters in 8 years, 3 of them were family coasters. 3:2 family to thrill in coasters isn't very good proportions, generally you want 3:2 thrill to family in terms of coasters...at least that's what the GP wants, and to attract tourists, that's what you want also.

Also, the reason GL hasn't gotten any new coasters under CF is because 4 coasters were added when Six Flags took over in 2000 and another in 2001, being 3 major additions, a launch (also a relatively major addition), and a family coaster. So 5 coasters in 2 years we'll keep GL from getting a new one for at least a little while. CF seems to be good with knowing what to add and when to add things, and tries their best to add at least something each year. So i'm looking forward still to see what is to come for paramount parks from CF.

CF felt that VF finally warrented a new coaster (and I agree with that decision) and based on what the park has, made the assessment that, with only one wood coaster there, another wood coaster would be a nice addition to their current assortment (which i also agree with). And she looks mighty purdy too!! Kind of a combo of Thunderbird and Thunderhead. It looks as though they could have made it a bit longer, because it seems to still have quite a bit of momentum going into the break run (and look, taller than thunderhead, but shorter, and many more low to the ground aspects than thunderhead...oh well, still looks fun). And that first drop looks mmm...mmm...good lol That would be fun if i could ever get there.

[CW-Fan]

I am not sure with the CF buyout like I was at first. At first I was excited and thought that CF was going to bring big change to Carowinds that it needs. Now I believe that Carowinds will be put on the back burner while CF takes care of their previous parks instead of their new ones. Carowinds held the highest earnings of all Paramount Parks since 2004. Carowinds is located in a great, easy to find location and has plenty of land to expand. The problem with expanding is Carowinds in the last 12 years have added rides that border the empty plots of land and actually did not plan for expanding the park. I am hoping that Paramount did not sell the land behind Hurler. If Carowinds added thrills and coasters for every new season like SFMM, and used good advertising (more than they do now), Carowinds would have the potential of competeing with Cedar Point. Everyone is saying that CF needs to determine what rides each park needs before they build anything. This is expected to take two years of planning. I can tell you now what each park needs. The last coaster was in 2004, three years later nothing good has been added and Carowinds is not giving us a reason to return next year. If Carowinds continues to lack in excitment and new attractions, the park will see a big decrease in attendance and sales. The solution is to get some action in the park so Carowinds can continue to grow strong.

[Edwardo]

I don't think Carowinds, or any of the former Paramount Parks, will go on the backburner. One thing, I wouldn't expect them to get anything major next year unless Paramount had planned for it. If it were me, I wouldn't expect anything major major in 2008 because they still need time to plan an impliment things. They're going to need to see what the parks need, can afford, and what is best for parks.

I've seen people, mostly elsewhere, compare SFI's current situation to CF's, as well as comparing this purchase to the purchase of GLP. But in both cases (SFI/GLP), you have situations where parks were in bad condition and attendance is likewise poor.

Not so with Paramount Parks. These parks were very well taken care of (say what you will, they were), ARE profitable, and have been purchased by a company that is also profitable and well taken care of. CFLP are already in the planning stages for their parks for the next 2 years or so. I know it was posted on Screamscape, but I have it on other GOOD sources that WoF and Dorney will also likely receive new wooden coasters in the next 2-3 years. I'd love to say more, I can't right now (but will later when I'm in a position to reveal more). I know everyone is saying "Oh! I guess this means CP will get some wood now". Maybe, maybe not.

But CP usually gets a new coaster every 2-3 years. These other parks are getting what they need, when they need it. I don't think we'll be left without anything new for 2007 or 2008 (I could be wrong, but doubt it), But, I don't see any coasters that weren't already planned and paid for coming.

And honestly, 2 years in Theme Park Time isn't really long. In the end, you may see Morgan Hypers and CGI woodies start popping up as well as an Intamin or B&M or 3 at the Paramount Parks .

As for Carowinds and their added coasters, I don't see a problem with 3 of them being family coasters. That was something the park lacked, IMO. The mouse is definitely on the more thrilling end of family, Reptar is on the kiddie end of family, and Saturator is right in the middle. They're all 3 fun. But since they were sandwiched in between one of the best Inverts out there (and thus far my favorite coaster at any Paramount Park I've been to yet), as well as a fairly popular Flyer, I'd say they're doing good.

[Edwardo]

Sorry for the double post, but I just deciphered this:

The problem with expanding is Carowinds in the last 12 years have added rides that border the empty plots of land and actually did not plan for expanding the park. I am hoping that Paramount did not sell the land behind Hurler.

HuH? The mouse was put smack dab in the middle of a section, as was BORG, Reptar, Super Saturator, and Top Gun was built around the edge and middle part of a section. The last time I saw anything added 'around the edges' was Wayne's World and then eventaully Drop Zone. Before that, it was, what? Thunder Road and the water park? Why would you not want Paramount to have sold them the land behind the park? (Which they did, they were getting out of the business and had no use for it now).

If Carowinds added thrills and coasters for every new season like SFMM, and used good advertising (more than they do now), Carowinds would have the potential of competeing with Cedar Point.

First off, Carowinds doesn't have the drawing power a park outside of L.A., one of the largest cities in the U.S. does, so that isn't going to happen. Second, why would Cedar Fair build up carowinds to compete with Cedar Point? That isn't going to happen. Cedar Point is and will remain the flagship park. But it is a different kind of park, more of a seasonal destination. Carowinds is a regional park.

Everyone is saying that CF needs to determine what rides each park needs before they build anything. This is expected to take two years of planning. I can tell you now what each park needs.

CF likely already knows what the parks need, what CF needs time to do is determine when and where they'll put the rides. You can't just buy 5 new parks (and 2 management contracts) and go "Oh, well, we'll just throw this ride over here, and that ride over there." Why can't you? Take a look at Six Flags. That was what they did, and look at them now. You can likely tell us what you'd like to see at the parks, but that isn't what each park 'needs'. It will take some time for CF to decide what to buy and where to put it (most likely in the reverse order).

The last coaster was in 2004, three years later nothing good has been added and Carowinds is not giving us a reason to return next year. If Carowinds continues to lack in excitment and new attractions, the park will see a big decrease in attendance and sales. The solution is to get some action in the park so Carowinds can continue to grow strong.

Which was 2 years ago. Cedar Point's last coaster was 3 years ago. And again, you're basing business off of personal opinion. Carowinds has upped their water park, which is a huge money maker and big draw, and their kids section, which is an even bigger money maker and bigger draw. Parks only add what they can get a return on investment from. You may not go back to the park next year, but other people likely will. Carowinds attendance grew from a new kids section and a new water park the last 2 years.

The park doesn't lack in excitement or new attractions. When was the last time they didn't get anything new? I can't remember. The attendance will not likely drop. Carowinds has the region on lock. The closest parks are SFoG and Dollywood (that compete with carowinds, slightly). People are coming back for that newly remodeled water park and kid's area. Carowinds has made all the right choices for the past decade, with the exception of a thrill flat or 2, IMO. And it shows.

There is plenty of action in the park and the GP love the place. So do enthusiasts. Carowinds is going to be fine under CF, and maybe even a little better. But it isn't going to bust out with new cosaters and thrill rides in the next 2 seasons. It wouldn't have done that under Paramount, and they knew what they were doing as well.

[insidebackdoor]

I can tell you Carowinds is at the top of CF list. There are HUGE expansion plans within the next 3-5 years. Rumor has it that the park wil not be recognized in 5 years.

[Edwardo]

Which is all well and good. I think Carowinds has mucho potential. However, don't expect them to be on par with Cedar Point. I think Knott's, which is in, what, the third most populated area in the U.S. has gotten a lot of attention from CP, and has a hotel, water park, shopping district, and more. But they haven't made Knott's in to 'the CP of the West', so don't expect much of a 'CP to the South'.

I have no doubt that they'll put a good bit of Capital in to Carowinds. They'd be silly not to. The park is in a great regional location, can have a long operating season, and has lots of expansion room. I think you'll continue to see an operational camp ground with a hotel added later. Carowinds is a great property, just like the other Paramount Parks.

[CW-Fan]

Well excuse me for giving my point! I don't expect Carowinds to have stratacoasters or another MF, but what I am saying is Paramount already had their next four years planned out including the 2007 season and the 2008 season. Carowinds is an exceptional park, but for people like me that have visted all my life, the same rides get old and we just want something new. The water park was a good addittion and was the kids area. All I meant was if they take their planning time, it will be atleast two years until their plans come to life and that will mean four to five years that Carowinds would go without a coaster. With that point, Carowinds had plans to remodel and re-theme most areas of the park for 2007. Thrill Zone, Country Fair, and the areas around the outside of Boomerang Bay. The coaster rumor was nice and exciting, but I know that Carowinds had no plans for a coaster b/c the signs do not point to anything new. Good flats and cleaning up areas of the park would be nice for the next year or two. Re-painting some rides would not hurt either.