[Capler]

Six Flag's CEO was recently quoted saying that the company will never get it's investment back from Goliath at SFOG. With the installation of Behemoth last year, and now Diamondback, do you think Cedar Fair can justifiably make that type of investment at Carowinds? Take into consideration that Wonderland is likely one of the most profitable parks in North America and on good years King's Island attendance rivals that of Cedar Point. To date, Carowinds largest investment has been less than 10 million.

[Jonathan]

An interesting point. Canada's Wonderland and Kings Island both draw over 3 million people each year, where Carowinds is around 2 million on a longer operating season. I think the real question is what potential does Cedar Fair see in the park and this growing area. If they think there is a lot of room to grow that number, then it could justify such a large addition.

[coasterbruh]

Sure they can! Its not like they will get one every year. I mean if your spenidng cap for new attractions each year is 10-15 mil then you can skip one year (like the park has been doing since BORG) and let your investment money grow. I'm sure the latest attractions the park has been rolling out dont cost anywhere near 10mil so I think the money is there to build anything right now!

Jarvis "thought top gun was 13.5 mil" Morant

[bgwfreak]

^Jarvis you need to update your sig now.

OK, first I don't want this to sound like a rant. So if it does, I'm saying right now it's not.

Since Borg they've spent very little in the way of money:

2005 - A couple used rides, some paint, and new pavers
2006 - 2 used water rides, some paint
2007 - A refurbed used ride
2008 - A wave pool, and a used yo yo.

With all they've saved the past 4 years, they could surely afford to put in a $20MM ride.

If they would put in a hyper, or a GCI twister honestly they wouldn't have to add another coaster for a long time.

I've always liked the BGE theory of quality over quantity.

[MarkD]

If they would put in a hyper, or a GCI twister honestly they wouldn't have to add another coaster for a long time.

Reaches thru monitor and jap-slaps the "freak" for even thinking that. j/k

So, $20 mil for a great coaster? With this entire area growing in population daily I think the dollar amount is low. With CF reported to want to build a resort or two at Carowinds that will cost quite a bit and give us nothing IN the park. What did the new oversize pool area cost? What did it cost to rebuild T.R. and all the other touch ups and fixes I saw a few weeks ago and add in the couple new buildings.

We are all dissapointed in the last several years at Carowinds but I really don't think that the dollar has anything to do with it. I soley put all our dissapointments on managements shoulders.

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

Can they invest that kind of money into our park? sure. Will they?

I dunno, but I like the way this sounded:

"If we had the money on the balance sheet, we have hotel opportunities at Kings Dominion and Carowinds and in Canada. We have plenty of land around all of those parks to make it into a resort community like Cedar Point.

Q: Was that something you had in mind when you bought the Paramount parks?

A: Yes, it really was. Plus they're in the southern region. Charlotte is a high growth area. Richmond is doing very well. We felt Santa Clara in California was an underutilized property. The one we were really surprised by was Canada's Wonderland. It's going to be a great property. "

The GP is begging for something new, fresh, and exciting to be built here, and I'm sure Dick and the Carowinds management knows it.

CF & Co. didn't buy our park to tear it down and send its rides to other parks... clearly....

I only see good things coming for our park.... although I think it may take a while for those good things to get here.

[bgwfreak]

I agree. They did specificially mention Carowinds as an exciting possibility or something like that, when they announced the buyout.

And I understand that we are in the middle of the pack, we're not KI or CW. Those are clearly very high on the attendance counts so of course they come first when it comes to capital spending.

I just hope that we get another major coaster sometime in the first 5 years of ownership. I'm not expecting a hyper, maybe a floorless or a GCI.

Charlotte is now in the top 20 metro areas I think, and still one of the fastest growing cities in the country. I hope they keep that in mind.

[coasterbruh]

forget all that "oh carowinds is a gold mine blah blah blah" Did you guys actually think they would NOT say anything good about the huge investment they were making to the public? Im sure they had high "hopes" and said great things about geauga lake also. It's all politics. People will say anything to win over a crowd...cedar UNfair has showed that with the way they have treated carowinds. If the park is sooooo great then why havent they put anything great in it!

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

"forget all that "oh carowinds is a gold mine blah blah blah" Did you guys actually think they would NOT say anything good about the huge investment they were making to the public? Im sure they had high "hopes" and said great things about geauga lake also. It's all politics. People will say anything to win over a crowd...cedar UNfair has showed that with the way they have treated carowinds. If the park is sooooo great then why havent they put anything great in it!"


How has Cedar Fair treated us unfairly? How? They built a wave pool , they have and will continue to give Thunder Road some real TLC, they will re-paint Borg (amen), and they are giving us a roller coaster to replace that piece of crap saturator! Give Cedar Fair some time to work with our park! It has only been a couple of years and yet you are ready to completely write them off! Your negativity towards this company is (mostly) unfounded, IMO. Show me proof of unfair treatment towards our park in five years, when we will all have a better perspective of CF's plans for us, and I will happily eat my words.


" Was that something you had in mind when you bought the Paramount parks?

A: Yes, it really was. Plus they're in the southern region. Charlotte is a high growth area. Richmond is doing very well. We felt Santa Clara in California was an underutilized property. The one we were really surprised by was Canada's Wonderland. It's going to be a great property. "

In the interview, Dick spoke very well of us, CW, and KD.... and look what has happened to those parks since they were bought from Paramount! Who's to say Carowinds isn't in for great additions as well?

Look, maybe you are right... maybe we might end up with the **** end of the stick under CF... but at this point, you really don't know what will happen any better than I do.... why don't we just wait and see what Carowinds is in store for before we denounce Cedar Fair.

[coasterbruh]

US!!!WE!!!OUR!!! It KILLS me when people refer to the park or any park as if it belongs to them! It's their park! WE dont have anything else to do with it or any say so...

The proof is in the pudding. They have made major investments at the other parks. Kings Dominion gets new water slides carowinds gets 1.5 pools, Replacing one coaster with another of the same level of excitement (in my opinion) is like replacing mcdonalds with burger king to me, performing mantainance and repainting rides are something that happen as park of upkeep. Paramount repainted vortex, so what! I have given cedar UNfair a chance and it seems while other parks are thriving that leave much to be said at carowinds. I mean last year if they didnt bring that swings to the park there would have been NO addition, as well as using one years addition as a rehashed ride. Carowinds is in SERIOUS need of flat rides and im sure the park could afford easily 3-4 in one season but no, we dont see them.

I have never been one to bash our...OOPS "the" park but lately things haven't been looking up. Was paramount the saving grace of the park, I will never say that but I can say each year they did more than what cedar fair is doing. Maybe it was thunder roads time for the refurb, doesn't paramount wouldn't have had to do it.

In five years the park could become a distant memory to me if this keeps up. Is a boomerang enough to get me to the park, hell no! The general public isnt that stupid and that showed when the park tried to advertise boombay as "new" lol.

It cracks me up to see you say "dick" spoke very well of us(meaning carowinds), KD, and CW and look what happen to them lol...you are right look what happen to them and look what happen to carowinds...

That alone should have been the just of my post.

Jarvis "tired of waiting...going to another 'playground' to play" Morant

[Thriller]

I have come to the conclusion that Carowinds has maxed out on useable space as it currently sits. I dont want to see a new coaster that looks out of place in the park or just shoved into the parking lot like a Six Flag's park would do. I seriously believe that CF is looking at maybe expanding carowinds in the near future! I may be wrong, but it's got to happen really soon because carowinds really is maxed! IMO, too much is already getting packed into the park as it is! CF see's the potential of this area (i hope)...if CF does not see it...than we have a major problem. If carowinds gets an expansion and some cutting-edge coasters and flats, i swear attendance will get better and we will see carowinds explode into one hell of a money making park! Until the good additions and changes take place, we will see a lag in attendance and profit will continue on a downward spiral! But this is just all my opinion!!!

[Jonathan]

The land Carowinds sits on is not even remotely close to maxed out. They could probably expand the park with 20 more coasters and still have plenty of space. Plus, all you have to do is look at Indiana Beach to know that a park is NEVER out of space.

[Capler]

I agree with you Jonathan, Carowinds has lots of space to expand. You can see the spare land up front while driving in. They could easily grow into some of the parking space and build more parking outward if needed. If you plant trees around a parking lot coaster, in a few years you’ll never know a parking lot was there. I’m old enough to remember when Carowinds had few trees and folks complained the park was too hot on a summer day.
I don’t know much about the campgrounds, being that I have never visited it, but that land surely could be used for expansion. Heck if it is adjacent to the park, run a hyper down through the middle of it. I’m not sure if the campgrounds are even that profitable to the park?
Bruh, I agree with all you said about how the park has been treated in recent years. You are right, the general public knows when something good and unique is coming to any park. There is always a buzz in the media and on the web surrounding a good attraction. Heck even country folk in the surrounding rural areas, who make their yearly church trip to Carowinds, keep up with where the best coasters are located. They know that Busch and Dominion always trumps Carowinds in that department. Little kids talk about the big coasters at Busch, but at Carowinds, the conversation never goes beyond Top Gun.
I agree the park is sorely lacking modern flats. Where is the Top Spin, where is the giant Frisbee? I understand water parks are popular but Carowinds is not noted as being a regional destination water park locale. That honor goes to Greensboro.
Again I don’t expect a new coaster every year, I would be very happy with a Busch type schedule where they put in a new world class coaster every 7 to 8 years. In the down years they could do the water park, add a new flat, or perhaps add a show, parade or something that does not cost much. Instead we keep getting refurbished crap nobody else wants. I feel that a boomerang is the ultimate insult. Nobody relocates a boomerang, -nobody! Those things are generally sold to third world parks very cheap. For what they are spending to move that thing, they could have put in a Firefall, which would excite the public more. Heck, even I get a kick out of standing on the sidelines and watching people get teased with the jets of fire and streams of water all choreographed to pulsating jungle music. Moving a boomerang to Carowinds was a very lazy corporate decision. Can you imagine the howls if this was done to Kings Island instead? This is one of those rare times where nothing for 2009 would have been better than the decision they made. I’m sorry, but a boomerang is not worth relocating to any park. When it happens, it says a whole lot about how the parent company feels about you.

[RollerBee]

Boomerang Relocations
2009-Carowinds
2007-Siam Park City (Bangkok, Bangkok Thailand)
2005-Alabama Adventure (Bessemer, Alabama 35023 USA)
2001-Dixie Landin' Family Theme Park (Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70810 USA)
2000-Six Flags New England (Agawam, Massachusetts 01001 USA)
2000-Six Flags New Orleans (New Orleans, Louisiana 70129 USA)

I see five relocations of Boomerangs since 2000, and only one of them possibly none is in a third world country.(I am not sure about Thailand. I don't understand why everyone is so darn wishy-washy about a boomerang coming to Carowinds. Atleast Carowinds is still there, Geauga Lake isn't there no more. The locals in that part of Ohio have to go Kings Island, Cedar Point, or some far off park to ride coasters. If you don't wanna ride Head Spin, don't ride; if you don't wanna go to Carowinds, don't go. Just remember this, if Carowinds doesn't perform to Cedar Fair likings, we could end up singing the same song as Geauga Lake fans are. The only way Carowinds is going to get a 20 million dollar coaster is if the park performs to Cedar Fair's liking enough to put it in the budget, chances are if we do get a ride of that size, it will be only thing we get for a couple seasons.
~Roller "I can't wait to ride Head Spin, and the other rides" Nut

[swampfox43]

Alabama Adventure (aka: Visionland) attendance 2003-2006:

2003 - 440,000
2004 - 496,000
2005 - 345,000 (Boomerang opens)
2006 - 388,400

See, even in Alabama a Boomerang coaster caused an attendance DECREASE!!

One thing "Nut". Carowinds will NEVER follow the path of Geauga Lake, I can assure you of that. They will sell it before they close it down.