[coasterbruh]

Aquatrax!!!

The wild thornberry's river adventure gets even wilder!

[bgwfreak]

^Why aren't you reading TPR?

The odd thing about this is the timing - why remove it after 2008?

(Not that this means anything) but didn't Cedar Point remove their water ride the year before they built Maverick?

The thing that makes me believe that something is going on is the fact that they said the woods wouldn't be used next year for Scarowinds (or ever again). Like whatever is going in there will take that much time to get built over the 09 season/09 off season.

This of course is all hearsay and I could turn out to be a total idiot for posting this. But I still have hope that my home park will finally redeem itself one day.

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

yea...I just don't see a hyper coaster- sized investment coming to Carowinds- I see a GCI or B&M non-hyper coaster sized investment- 5-15 million... but 20-25 million? I can hope, but I just don't see it unless there is some statistic I am unaware of....

answer me this: Carowinds is surrounded by a market area of about 14 million people

King's Island's market area is about 15 million people

Canada's Wonderland's market area is around 9 million people

King's Dominion has a total market area of about 19 million people

So, with these numbers in mind, why does Wonderland see the first major investment of all the former Paramount Parks.. over Carowinds, which caters to a far larger market, and is located in a rapidly growing area?

It is interesting that there seems to be a pattern of B&M hypers... 2009 will bring the second of two similar hypers- both 230 feet tall, both with the same style trains, both costing about the same, both having other similar stats... I would agree that this seems to be pointing to a multi year deal of very similar investments with B&M... and I am almost certain that one CF park will see a brand new 230' B&M hyper in 2010... I would bet on it.

Now here is the really big question: Is there a park in the CF chain that is in greater need of a new B&M coaster in 2010 more than Carowinds?

If not, then I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a third 230' hyper- similar to Behemoth and Diamondback- invested at Carowinds.... but there is a lot of time between now and 2010 so I guess we will just have to wait and see!

I would hope for the best, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the **** end of the stick in 2010, either.

At this point- I don't think Carowinds is in a place to see a boomerang coaster one year, and then see a brand new hyper the very next season... I think that is a bit too optimistic, especially now that we are seeing the park really try to add as many theming additions and frills to the boomerang as possible.... I think maybe a nice flat ride package for 2010 or nothing for 2010 and then something major for 2011, IMHO, is more likely. I'm trying very hard to stay on the cautious, conservative side of these rumore, as you can see.


One thing is definitely for sure- until we see concrete and supports- it is WAY too early to start talking about anything under the damn bridge!

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

hey BGWFreak... do you have an internet link where it says the woods would not be used for a haunt next year?

Are the woods usually used for haunt every year?

I just want to see the text for myself... I don't doubt you or anything like that..

The big thing for me, is that I just want to see something in the log flume's place that makes a far better use of the land... I always loved the log flume(not the long lines) ... something about banging into the sides of the flume trough and getting wet while drifting through thick pine forest is kind of a unique experience at a theme park like Carowinds these days... these days while old water rides like log flumes and paddleboats are being replaced by concrete and steel... the log flume at Carowinds had some uniqueness about it... there isn't much forest left at the average American theme park these days, you know??

Sorry, I'm rambling

[Jonathan]

Carowinds is surrounded by a market area of about 14 million people

King's Island's market area is about 15 million people

Canada's Wonderland's market area is around 9 million people

King's Dominion has a total market area of about 19 million people

Where are you getting these market numbers from, and what distance radius does a market consist of?

The immediate answer to your question that I can give is this: For starters, Canada's Wonderland IIRC has the highest seasonal amusement park attendance in North America. Now, you could kind of twist that, and point out that there's no need to add any new big rides (which is what they've been doing for the last couple of decades until Behemoth), since people will come regardless.

14 million is a lot of people, and I'd like to see where that comes from considering that the entire population of North and South Carolina combined is just under 14 million (I guess that is where you got it?).

Here are the numbers that I would say REALLY matter for regional parks like these:

Charlotte metro population: 2.5 million
Toronto metro population: 5.5 million
Cincinnati metro population: 2.1 million
Richmond metro population: 1.1 million
San Francisco metro population: 7.3 million

With that said, after Cedar Fair took over, Scott Anderson said that the park was seen as a prime opportunity for the company considering the high growth area, and to be patient. Maybe in 2010 that patience will pay off. Maybe not... We'll see..

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

I got my numbers from the front office: http://www.cedarfair.com/ir/company/properties/

they specifically say 14 million... who knows?

[Jonathan]

Ah, I see. Very interesting.

Oh well, if they really think there are 14 million people in the market area, then that's better for us!

[cdp123]

Cedar Fair ridiculously tries to incorporate most of NC and SC as part of their "market area" when in truth only Charlotte and the surrounding areas are the popular ones. Also, keep in mind that because there's no threats near us Cedar Fair can also think not to spend money on us because...where are people in NC gonna go for a quick thrill? They won't make the haul to Dollywood or SFoG I'll tell you that.

[montumax]

[quote="Foghorn-Leghorn"]hey BGWFreak... do you have an internet link where it says the woods would not be used for a haunt next year? Are the woods usually used for haunt every year?
[quote]

Well, I was told that this was the last year for the picnic area that was used for Final Summons. So, its a goner.

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

yea it seems like a bit of an overestimate.... the text in that same link also makes no mention of Carowinds competitors in Virginia... or HRP... but yea, perhaps those bloated figures will work towards our benefit.. IMO, the only numbers that really matter are the ones that show increased attendance, increased revenue, and increase in population in the area..

CDP122- I think most of that post is unfounded- Dollywood added a 5 million dollar investment to the park this year- they are looking at exceeding last years attendance this year... And Dollywood is in the middle of the mountains- far from Charlotte, Columbia, Nashville, or Raleigh/RTP... IMO, Carowinds is poised in the perfect area in the south outside of Florida for a theme park- it may not have the attendance numbers of CW or CP but it is definitely well above the middle of "the pack"

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

hey BGWFreak... do you have an internet link where it says the woods would not be used for a haunt next year? Are the woods usually used for haunt every year?

Well, I was told that this was the last year for the picnic area that was used for Final Summons. So, its a goner.

no kidding?!?! wow.. I'm surprised how good this rumor looks... and it isn't even 2009 yet....

[CoasterDad]

The addition of Behemoth at Wonderland established that well-attended park as having the tallest coaster in Canada. Diamondback represents the first new coaster addition at KI in several years, not to mention the B & M plant is nearby and the park didn't have any B & M product at all. I talked with locals several times while I waited in line for rides at KI this summer and was amazed to find that very few had ever been to Cedar Point, just 3 hours away! I could hardly believe it.

As for a more worthy CF park than Carowinds to recieve the next B & M hyper, I don't see it. I've thought carefully about each property and really don't see anyone in a better position to get one, despite the addition of the boomerang next year. As for a GCI woody, Dorney is probably the next after Worlds gets theres next year. Personally, I think it a "ploy" by CF whereas Great America is concerned and any behind the scenes negotiating for that land. Hah! I bet when its all said and done, the park moves or disolves...

I will say this, after talking with some CF brass this summer, I was told that there would be two major projects underway at our park during 2009. Take that to mean the boomerang is not our only addition within the next 18 months. The hyper would take around 12 months, start to finish. I don't see another B & M product more likely than a hyper - we have an inverted, KD has the floorless, Zepp is nearby and a standard looper, and we're inbetween drop machines - what else could be better? I would say start watching the building permits early next year and see what happens...CF will establish themselves the leader of tallest and longest in the southeast, just as they have elsewhere!

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

"As for a more worthy CF park than Carowinds to recieve the next B & M hyper, I don't see it. I've thought carefully about each property and really don't see anyone in a better position to get one, despite the addition of the boomerang next year. As for a GCI woody, Dorney is probably the next after Worlds gets theres next year. Personally, I think it a "ploy" by CF whereas Great America is concerned and any behind the scenes negotiating for that land. Hah! I bet when its all said and done, the park moves or disolves..."

I REALLY hope you are right!

[coasterdave]

Allow me to drop afew cents into this if I might. I want to answer Foghorn question that has not been addressed but I think should be. You need to know that Wes was a guest of the park doing a story on their Scarowinds Event. And please correct me if I am wrong Wes but it is about putting you in costume to experience what working at a Halloween Event is like. So there is a great chance that during his stay there that he was told that and that is why you will not find it anywhere in print on the Net. I would tend to sorta take Wes for what he was told and take a wait and see with the Log Flume.

Now as for what Max said about that dreadful excuse of a haunted house being in the soon to be defunct picnic shelter, I for one would take Max for his word if you know who he is but that is after all up to you. But that is your choice but I for one think something is replacing the log flume.

[Foghorn-Leghorn]

I took his word for it, I was just wondering if there was any text concerning the matter so I could read further into it... to possibly see more clues in reading between the lines....that's all.. and now I just saw that it was all from inside talk... ok.. so... nevermind

I do believe something is replacing the flume... if something large was to be added to carowinds... I would go for the area around the flume- there is more area there for development than anywhere else within the developed land belonging to the park.... I would be more skeptical if there was some conflict with what different people were told.... but so far, everything seems to be lining up rather nicely.