[Edwardo]

And CF still has to pay a bunch of money.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 89157.html

Jeez I wish they'd ouster Kinzel.

[JShafer]

The Herald also posted about it,

http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/04/06/ ... ening.html

[CoasterDad]

I must admit that I'm relieved to hear of this... but the $1.7 Billion debt remains a problem to overcome... that may involve some not-so-popular changes for those of us who love the parks. If you will remember back a year ago, it was suggested that CF might deal off some parks, like WOF or VF. Personally, I don't know how that effects the whole debt picture, other than "carving off" some sizeable chunks of debt if those parks were sold. Still, CF would have debt in excess of a billion, even if those parks had ready buyers, which I seriously doubt. At the very least, we may see very few capital expenditures at any of the parks for 2011 or 2012, and would expect to see CF sell off surrounding/unused parcels of real estate at all of their locations. Sure makes me glad we have our Intimidator up and running!

[Edwardo]

The only park I honestly see them selling off is Great America. It seems that the 49rs would not only be willing to purchase the park at one time, but to keep it as a park. I think that would have been a great idea, and would shave some debt thru the sale as well as lowered expenditures ongoing.

And I think they should definitely sale some of their unused land around some of the larger parks for sure.

But my biggest wish is that the board or someone grows tired of Dick & Co. and ousts them. Hostile Takeover FTW.

[CoasterDad]

Agreed, Great America could go, but then it's not my home park and I might have a different opinion if it were. Seems to me they bantered around a $250M price tag on it at some point...

Edwardo, why do you think that Dick Kinzel and his team aren't doing the job needed? Certainly, it would seem they were behind the Intimidators coming to our park and KD, as well as other numerous positive changes at KI and Wonderland. I too, would like to think that anyone in charge is as enthusiastic about the parks as we are! Just wondering your thoughts on that...

[Jonathan]

I'm curious to hear you elaborate on Kinzel as well. I don't really follow the industry close enough to know what's going on, but he seems pretty respected.

[Edwardo]

I honestly think that Dick has turned into Michael Eisner. It isn't all about the coasters. Granted, I think they've done a good job at adding rides, and that isn't the problem at all. And as far as Carowinds goes, this year (and looking forward), I think Carowinds has finally been seen as a park to be taken care of by it's parent company, and yes, Kinzel (and Bart I'm sure) are part of that.

Having said that...

Food-Food pricing is terrible, food quality is terrible, and it doesn't have to be. I hate paying inflated prices at Six Flags, but the food quality is at least decent.

Rides-I'm not going to complain TOO much about rides, but Cedar Fair really needs to add some thrill rides to parks without. Maybe that's on the Horizon, and I hope so.

Geauga Lake-Yes, I know. Six Flags 'ruined' Geauga. But CF killed it. The park could have been fixed. They got rid of the animals because it 'wasn't their thing', and it really hurt. I don't feel that CF killed of Geauga on purpose so that CP had less competition as some state, but I don't think they did enough. They should have removed a couple of more rides, kept the animal sections, expanded the waterpark where it was, and done more with the park.

Star Trek The Experience-They didn't want to continue with this from the get go, and they let it go. I went pre CF and post CF, and trust me, it was quite different. They didn't keep some of the best and most important effects. Neonopolis is working with CBS for a new Experience, but CF could easily have just moved the old stuff to a new location. I feel that they let it go at the wrong time as Trek is now popular again.

Ride Names-C'mon. Ya'll know they suck at rebranding.

Knizel-He threw away 6 mill on a deal that if it would have went thru only benefited himself and the people supporting it. He even said that he was looking forward to Apollo buying so he could get back to what he was good at, running a park, and not being the financial guy. I'm sorry, but any CEO should be shot for saying something like that.

The Paramount Deal-They came in and got rid of a bunch of established people doing a good job to replace it with their own people. I just felt that was wrong. Then they tried to just CFize the Paramount Parks, and honestly, that looked terrible for the first few years. Now they're going in and spending money (when they're already in debt) to re-do the parks. Re-doing the parks isn't a bad thing, but I just think the way they did it sucked. They got rid of some really good park staff who knew the parks they were managing.

Lack of moving forward-They're still having issues with Season passes from other parks. They really don't like new tech all that much outside of rides. And they still don't have any type of queue management/pay to cut system. Stuff they could be saving money with, and making money on, they shy away from.

That's just some of my issue. And I really don't like how they handled this whole situation.

I do think they're doing Carowinds, Kings Island, and Kings Dominion right. I dont' think Canada's Wonderland needed much attention. There was a reason it's so highly attended, and I think they're running that park well. But there are other things that are severly lacking.

[MarkD]

^ You've never been a part of a company take over have you? I have been through 3 of them and my last job went to Mexico. Usually the first thing they do is sever ties with old employees who are in charge. They want their people in that already know their way and won't fight them. It sucks, but that is life.

Food is / has always been a problem for most parks. It either sucks are it is expensive and sometimes both. I wish the parks would just lease out the venues, at a reasonable rates, to more of the chain establishments. We already got Chick Fil A and Cinn a bon so why not get TGIF, Applebee’s, O Charley’s and the like?

Rides will come but at a rate or types we may not like. To me Carowinds is 5 - 10 years behind in Flats and Water slides but they did give us another wave pool and a new kiddy slide.

Make no doubt about it but business' are in business to make money at almost any cost. Just because we love the Amusement Park side of things Dick is no different from the rest of the CEO's that run any company.

I could go on and on and on about the entire history of foul ups and just stupid decisions at Carowinds but I won't and I also don't think it is fair to point out one guy.

[Edwardo]

They want their people in that already know their way and won't fight them.

Actually, I have, but that's beside the point. I know it happens, a lot, but I still don't agree with it.

Food is / has always been a problem for most parks.

I actually really disagree with that. In fact, other than pricing, which I don't even complain about at its core, most parks I go to have at least decent food. Six Flags has improved their food offerings. Busch parks have good food. Disney parks have good food. Don't even get me started on Herschend. Paramount's food was about on par with Cedar Fair, but prices have went up, and quality has went down. Food is one of my biggest gripes. And even CP has decent non-park options on property.

Rides will come but at a rate or types we may not like. To me Carowinds is 5 - 10 years behind in Flats and Water slides but they did give us another wave pool and a new kiddy slide.

The rides gripe isn't that big a deal, because I honestly believe they're headed in the right direction as far as Carowinds goes, but some of the other parks are really lacking. Demon Drop? Seriously? A new ride?

Make no doubt about it but business' are in business to make money at almost any cost. Just because we love the Amusement Park side of things Dick is no different from the rest of the CEO's that run any company.

See, I don't have a problem with that at all. But with terrible food options, getting rid of shade, not keeping up with things that other parks are doing is devaluing the price that they charge.

Let's take a quick look at the 'new' Six Flags. They charge more for parking, which I think sucks, but they're in worse shape financially than CFEC due to the old regime. However, they're putting better quality food items in the parks. They're adding decent family rides. They've expanded the Flash Pass program and their VIP programs. Their Season Passes just work. Everywhere. I will say that CF is very clean, and the ride ops have always been better and still are a nudge above most SF parks I've been to in the last 3 years. But there are missed opportunities.

I feel that CFEC has taken on Burke's old "Build it and they will come" attitude. Six Flags has still been building, but they've added more than just rides. They've added animal attractions, a great parade to some parks (which CF got rid of), and they're focusing on ride experiences, even taking smaller, simple rides and making them better, like TDK coasters. I think CFEC's new nite time experience is a step in the right direction, and I am happy to see them expand that this year to other parks.

And again, a CEO that publicly states in an interview that he's just not that great with the financial side of running a business and would like to get away from that DOESN'T NEED TO BE A CEO. The guy does a great job running a park, but being CEO and basically running the board, I think he's not doing a great job at that.

I could go on and on and on about the entire history of foul ups and just stupid decisions at Carowinds but I won't and I also don't think it is fair to point out one guy.

Most of Carowinds issues were from past companies so I will say that I like the way Carowinds is being run. In fact, it isn't that I don't like the way most of the CF parks are being run on a local level. But a CEO that is afraid of technology, runs the company and the board, fouled up a deal to get rid of debt and still had to pay a few million, and is generally not doing whats in the best interests of the company AND the unit holders really has some answering to do.

I think people here are kind of a tad bit biased, and with good reason. Carowinds was neglected for so long, and now the company's son is running the park and doing very well. But if you take a look around the net (and not just coaster sites, but some business sites as well), I think you'll see that the company under Dick is making mistakes that could be handled much better by a CEO that DOES know the financial side well.

[rctdcifreak]

See I am kinda straddled right now. Edwardo I agree with you on that maybe Dick isn't doing his best for the company. But then again, we are all human and as such will make mistakes. How we deal with those mistakes is what helps makes us better people, professionally and personally. I am very glad that the deal did not go through, after all Carowinds has been owned by Cedar Fair for only three/four years now and another company takeover could destroy the momentum that Carowinds has gained in just the last year.

That being said, there are ways Cedar Fair can look at improving there internal structure in the board to help reduce debt. Not to mention if there are stubborn people on the board, it makes it difficult to reform anything that should probably be done. If for instance Dick has tried to make strides on improving food quality, some hard heads could almost make it difficult for him to do anything if they oppose it. And lets not forget sometimes as a CEO you are the puppet and the board is the puppeteer. Am I saying that is what is going on? No, but you can't rule out that possibility. As the CEO you are a lot of times the front man who takes the fall, as in this case, but it doesn't honestly mean that it was your fault.

This is not a right and wrong answered question or concern as it is very complex and most likely none of us will ever know the true story. But in any case, there are three sides to a story: his side, her side, and the actual truth. Just some food for thought...

[Jarsh]

If for instance Dick has tried to make strides on improving food quality, some hard heads could almost make it difficult for him to do anything if they oppose it.

Is this where I mention something about going with Red Gold ketchup instead of Heinz?

[Edwardo]

And lets not forget sometimes as a CEO you are the puppet and the board is the puppeteer.

I would have no problem with agreeing with that, but Dick is the chairman of the board. That is part of the problem. And that is why I blame Dick more than anyone else. I also put blame on the Board of Directors, and I mentioned that way back in the first post as well. They're only looking out for themselves. But since Dick is the chairman of the board AND CEO AND park manager of the chain's flagship park, I have issues with the way he runs stuff higher than CP.

EDIT: I found a nice definition of Chairman of the Board that explains why I don't think Kinzel should be that AND CEO nicely:

Corporate governance-
A chairman is selected by a company's board to lead the board of directors, preside over meetings, and lead the board to consensus from the disparate points of view of its members. The chairman is the presiding director over the other directors on the board and is expected to be fair, a good listener, and a good communicator.

In public companies, the role of the chairman of the board is distinct from that of the company's CEO or managing director. This point has more recently been brought into focus after corporate governance shortcomings were observed in companies where the two roles are combined. It is believed that the separation of functions within the board of directors or in the structure of the supervisory board and management board would facilitate control over the workings of the company and increase the accountability of the CEO or chairman of the management board. In an attempt to inject transparency into the relationship between executive management and the board of directors as well as between management and the market or shareholders, the UK Cadbury Report was published in 1992. Its recommendations have been adopted to a greater or lesser extent by some countries within the European Union and the United States, as well as by the World Bank.

See, Dick was ELECTED chairman of the board, and he is the CEO. Which means that pretty much everything that goes on ultimately can be blamed on him since he "lead(s) the board to consensus from the disparate points of view of its members" and runs the company day to day. He makes decisions on the park and company level, and then goes to the board and leads them to his consensus. Tell me how that's in the best interest of the company AND shareholders?

Again, I'm very glad that Carowinds is getting attention. And with Dick as CEO and Bart as park president, that wouldn't have likely changed under Apollo or anyone else. Heck, I don't even have issue with Dick being ON the Board. I just think someone else should be the director of the board.

[Davidtmp]

Ken Lewis was CEO as well as Chairman at one time at BofA....a little conflict of interest there if you ask me.
Not sure why you said Dick fouled up this deal though. The stock holders are the ones that voted this down. They weren't going to get enough votes for the deal to go thru, so they pulled the deal. The $6mil was just what Apollo had in the contract, standard for any merger between companies I would think.
I do agree with you that the CEO that comes out and says he isn't so well with the financial side of things should throw up red flags. He better have one hell of a financial manager on staff to do all that stuff.

[Edwardo]

The reason I feel he messed this whole thing up was because he was all ready to go in and let Apollo buy CFEC for a low price that didn't benefit shareholders at all, but did benefit the upper management. I was glad to see the uprising that caused this deal to go south. I think it was a mistake from the getgo that he didn't try to broker a better selling price and was just sure that everyone was stupid and wouldn't see what was really going on. The person that benefited most from the sale would be Kinzel. He would have made out decently, still had a job, with less responsibilities, and IIRC, there was a nice golden parachute clause (I could be wrong on that).

I've over looked a lot of things, but the Apollo deal really turned me off. And now they're filing papers to make a hostile takeover hard. That's because now he realizes how upset people are, and he doesn't want to lose all that power.

Dude should have retired when he said he was going to, and then just been on the Board of Directors.