[SafteyMan]

Hello fellow Theme park lovers.

Today I rode on the Intimidator with my family and I have to admit that I was very apprehensive to put my life on a single T-bar restraint system with NO REDUNDANCY.

What I mean by this is while every other coaster in Carowinds has a belt + bar. The Intimidator has no redundant belt system.

Murphy's law is an adage or epigram that is typically stated as: "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong".
The belt is there in case of a failure of the main restraint system. It will physically provide a second fail-safe.

I witnessed several overweight individuals having problems getting the bars secure.
& this leads to a problem. One that lead to a man dying on a similar train in Virginia on the Superman coaster in 2004

I've made this short graphic to explain the concern. and educate everyone here.


As you can see the Intimidator 305 uses a very secure and trustworthy seat. I'm not sure why Carowinds wont spend the cash and upgrade the trains on their coaster.

I just pray that everyone has a safe journey on this ride. and that Carowinds will see the risk here and attempt to correct it.

Thanks for reading.

[Jonathan]

There has never been a restraint failure in the 25 year history of B&M. They are probably the safest manufacturer in the roller coaster industry. The reason there is no seat belt is because there is no need for redundancy. Unlike the Intamin restraints (and the forces on the coaster itself) on Superman (which is in Massachusetts, not Virginia) that you reference, which are a complete and total different design, it is impossible to come out of one of these rides (unless you are actively trying and even then I'm not sure). Your own post proves that the redundancy is irrelevant, as Superman did in fact have a seat belt. Please cite an example of someone falling out of a B&M coaster with lap bar restraints (hint: you won't find one because it has never happened).

The first ride in your post, Intimidator-305, has had the restraints modified from what is shown is your photo. Why? Because the restraints in that photo were uncomfortable and painful, causing numerous guest complaints. Since then Intamin has designed a completely new train with a new lap bar design. I doubt you'll ever see shoulder restraints on an Intamin hyper coaster again.

In fact, the industry as a whole seems to be trending away from shoulder restraints. My advice to you would be to keep yourself and your family away from amusement parks if you are uncomfortable with them rather than fear mongering with ridiculous claims.

[Jay]

To add to that, on the accident at Six Flags New England on Superman, the man did not have his lap bar checked at all. Surely, had it been checked and in the proper position it would have worked fine.

[arby]

If you took all the time to research your above original post, you should have spent some of the time researching all the redundant safety features alone that are in this single lap bar.

I will agree that these single T-bars are unsafe... if you have no legs. That's why they won't allow you to ride Intimidator if you have no legs.

[chunkyskunk]

I am a huge B&M fan and will take them WAY before Intamin plus let me point out that I 'DO' agree with Jonathan and JJ above but I also admit that I was a bit surprised to see no seat belt click to the side as a back up when I first saw it. It took me quite a few rides before I was not holding onto the seat arm rails. I do love not having irritating restraints and glad we do not have them.

[Jonathan]

Many manufacturers are moving away from seat belts as well. The new Rocky Mountain Construction trains (Outlaw Run and Iron Rattler) and the Gerstlauer trains on New Texas Giant do not have seat belts. Neither do the new Timberliner trains from The Gravity Group. Two reasons for this: One, seat belts slow down loading significantly. Two, seat belts can be easily defeated by the rider; there is nothing to stop them from unbuckling them (see 2003 Raven accident) or loosening them. Rocky Mountain and The Gravity Group are figuring out what B&M already realized long ago: the best restraint is one that is designed so well that no seat belt redundancy is needed.

[SafteyMan]

Even if the design is the safest in the world. It isn't perceived as safe by the riders.

I will go as far to say that I have spoken with other co-workers who refuse to ride because of the single T-Bar.
Sometimes perceived safety is stronger emotionally than actual safety.

These can effect what choices people make when they decide to get on a ride. (Hmm that doesn't look very safe to me)
Especially when you consider that most of the ride operators are high school students, being paid minimum wage.

Another good analogy is the Glock pistol. It has a "safe action" trigger. Meaning that there is no external saftey on the firearm. You're simply expected to keep your finger off the trigger. Well this hasn't stopped many user error of negligent discharge.

So while this T-Bar design may be safe. I would argue that a user or operator failure could & probably will occur.

The very obese people I've seen attempting to fit in the seats are also a concern. (They have to have the bar manually pushed down on their thighs)

P.S. I also found myself grabbing onto the arms of the chair. It's very scary not having an actual chest harness. I won't be riding again until they update the restraints.

[Jonathan]

Even if the design is the safest in the world. It isn't perceived as safe by the riders.

I will go as far to say that I have spoken with other co-workers who refuse to ride because of the single T-Bar.
Sometimes perceived safety is stronger emotionally than actual safety.

Well perception is irrelevant to actual safety. Not to mention, isn't that kind of the point of roller coasters? Not for me, or for anyone on this forum probably, but for the average person the fear and perception of risk are what thrill rides are all about.

Your analogy with a Glock is not good at all; it is not even remotely comparable in any way.

I would argue that a user operator failure could & probably will occur.

You can argue whatever you want, but you have nothing to back that up other than your own wild conjecture, whereas the 12 B&M coasters worldwide with these exact restraints have safely carried somewhere around 100 million riders.

[gabed]

Personally I love the T-Bar, I feel that it gives the rider more freedom throughout the roller coaster.

[SafteyMan]

Thanks for the info all.

I didn't say it was a safety issue but a concern of mine.

I just can't feel "at east" on this particular coaster. & that speaks volumes because I enjoy and trust every other ride in the park.

So again. I will stand corrected if some proof will be shown of the key safety elements of the current train T-bar restraint.

Some things I would like to know.
1. How much control do the operators have of the seat locks while the ride is in motion?
2. How many locks are on the car that keep the lap bar closed.
3. Are the locks 100% mechanical or electrical or a mixture of both?

Thanks for any info provided here. This can be a learning experience for everyone.

[coasterfreak]

The idea with the T-Bar on a hyper is to feel out of control. As you will note, Intimidator doesn't have your 'typical' coaster features (ex. loops, corkscrews and the like) but what it does have is ridiculous airtime. Those large hills create that negative g-force that causes you to float in the air and the lapbar enhances the experience.

The reason there is a 54" height restriction is to keep people who wouldn't be safely secure off the ride. The ride is designed for 54" and above.

I-305 is more or less the most intense (that I've ridden anyway) and physically straining roller coaster on the face of the planet, considering the majority of riders experience g-forces so harsh it's almost like simulating a rocket launch.While I know the ride is completely safe (and awesome might I add,) I would question whether or not it was safe as a whole to the public; OTS restraints or not; a billion times before I would consider B&M's safety.

In the end, just like Jonathan said, just look at the statistics. 100 million completely safe, alive, kicking riders don't lie.

EDIT
To answer your questions...
Some things I would like to know.
1. When the ride leaves the station, the operators have NO control of seat locks. If, say, the ride broke down on the lift and they had to evacuate, the op's have a special key that has to be inserted into every seat to unlock them one at a time.
2. At least two locks are on each seat. They have actually came up with a secondary lock that serves as a seat belt replacement.
3. Both. When the train enters the station, there are mechanical hydraulics that lift to push open the locks under the train. it is electrically operated by the ops. This is the only place the train can be unlocked unless you use the key I mentioned earlier.
Hopes this helps!

[Jonathan]

I didn't say it was a safety issue but a concern of mine.

You definitely presented it as a safety issue, even saying a "user or operator failure could & probably will occur." This kind of misinformation is problematic because if someone reads it and trusts what you have presented, they will believe the ride to be unsafe. This is bad for the image of the park and bad for people like those of us on this forum who love roller coasters, because the more cumbersome shoulder restraints are generally disliked as uncomfortable and sometimes downright painful (to the point that I might even argue they are sometimes more dangerous).

1. How much control do the operators have of the seat locks while the ride is in motion?

The operators have no control over the restraint locks while the ride is in motion. The restraints can only be unlocked while in the station, and the ride's computer will not dispatch without all restraints down. The only way to unlock the restraints while outside of the station is with a special manual unlock device.

2. How many locks are on the car that keep the lap bar closed.
3. Are the locks 100% mechanical or electrical or a mixture of both?

I think you might find this useful, which is a pretty good explanation of how the locking mechanism works and why it is fail safe: http://forum.towerstimes.co.uk/alton-to ... -rides/45/

In other words, since the default position of the restraint is locked, failure is about as likely as the roller coaster itself just falling down.

If you want an even more technically detailed explanation, you could try contacting the manufacturer: http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com/conta ... ct_en.aspx

[SafteyMan]

Thanks all, Jonathan you can delete thread if you want.

I would like to say in closing however that I still don't "feel" safe on the intimidator.
That could be taken as a good thing or a bad thing, but I like a belt being a 2nd visible backup.

The Vortex has a belt that is user operated and I know if the main retention system breaks that the belt sure as heck isn't going to.

It really shocked me that every other coaster in Carowinds uses a belt along with a bar. or some combination of this but the intimidator doesn't .

[Jonathan]

We'll keep it open in case anyone has further questions or wants to discuss anything else safety related.

Ultimately, I think people need to remember that amusement rides are one of the safest forms of entertainment in existence, which is quite frankly a remarkable feat of engineering and policy.

According to IAAPA, there are 300 million visitors to amusement parks in the country each year, taking over 2 billion rides. And yet, we rarely ever see a fatality. Meanwhile, over 30,000 people are killed in automobile accidents each year in the US, so the true danger associated with a trip to the park comes before you even enter the gates and after you have left.

[Mountain3307]

.. and to add to what Jonathan said.. most of the handful of fatalities involving roller coasters every year are individuals who enter a "restricted" area and are struck by the train.. ONLY a couple are due to a pre-existing medical condition that the rider is unaware of.

Also, the reason every other coaster at Carowinds has seatbelts is due to the fact that they are at least 10 years old.. (Top Gun '99) Now I'm not sure about when Ricochet was built. ,Somehow, I think It was built in '04 but I may be wrong.. Either way, its 9 years old, close enough.. Seatbelts were the accepted practice.

Technology has come a LOOOOOOOOONG way in that time! I can honestly say that B&M is the best manufacturer out there.. They have the restraint system right, ride experience is right, and have been doing it that way for quite sometime. That clamshell restraint has been unchanged for YEARS! If that system fails, there has been a catastrophic failure of the train and thats the LEAST of your problems at the time..

Not to mention of I-305's documented restraint issues, Skyrush at Hersheypark has had similar problems. And there are others, Its all related to the biggest growing pain in the industry.. Innovation..

The Intimidator is SAFE, B&M wouldnt have designed it if it wasnt! I have well over 300 rides on that thing. And plan on many more now that both of my kids are tall enough.. If you choose not to ride, thats your perrogative and provides an extra open seat for the rest of us.

Ride on Kids!