[Capler]

Don't get me wrong, I love the big world class attractions we have gotten over the past 15 years, but I also miss what has been lost. I've been going to the park since the 1970's, and the transformation has been dramatic.
Now the park feel very cluttered, like a fair midway. (But at least the NC State Fair still has it's lake and wooded area.) Back in the old days you use to only get that cluttered feeling in the County Fair section. The park also use to have very distinctive sections or rooms with green space serving as barriers. I like crowds but sometimes I want to get off the beaten path and just chill for a moment without dodging people. Like at Wal Mart, it requires a lot of energy maneuvering around people, strollers and babies, all the time. You need spaces you can stop with your kids and make them sit still for a minute, while they eat their junk food and fuss at them away from other folk.

The last available place I could do that was in the Thrill Zone. I loved going back there because it was a bit isolated and I could use the not so crowded rest room and just chill for a few minutes. Now that Fury is there, that space has been changed forever.
As I think about this, I honestly feel all of this could have been avoided with better planning by the park. Fury, Intimidator and even Afterburn to some extent had little to do with it because of their placement used mostly parking lots.

The biggest sin ever done to the park is when they took out the river and the tree covered island. That barrier shaped the park and into distinctive areas. You really felt like you were going somewhere when you had to walk around, without seeing what was on the other side. Now with Nighthawk, Windseeker, and the Flyer in there, it just adds more continuous clutter. I love Fury the ride, but it's like a big freaking mountain. You can see it from wherever you are in the park. I use to think Thrill Zone was far away, not any more with mount Fury looming over the entire park. The park feels so small with a towering structure sitting on one of it's corners. Oh well, l love Fury anyhow.

Remember the park-like setting that was in the Top Gun area? I use to love that section of the park with it's benches and trails. Last night I found myself staring at the old grist mill wheel and the little pool/fountain, realizing it is all that is left. It is such a small area, but by far the prettiest place left in the park. How could they do this to a once lovely park?

Anyway I continued on around the park and the only not so congested space left at the park is the bathroom area that sits back close to the water park. I wonder if they could plant a couple of trees and place a bench back there for an old man like me? I really hate the park did not preserve it's green space.

Will things ever change, probably not? I had hopes last year when they extended the front entrance. But instead they put in a parking lot, and a big sweeping entry plaza that is not even inside the park. Perhaps one day when I'm dead and gone and Carolina Cyclone is no more, they will relocate the maintenance area, and extend the park back and bring a tree or two back into the park. That would be nice.

[Tosu97]

No.

[Jonathan]

I don't really agree with your complaints about the placement of Fury (I think that part of the park was a dead zone in a bad way, not a pleasant way), but I do sympathize with your thoughts on lack of "chill space", something that many of my favorite parks (Europa Park, Alton Towers, Busch Gardens, even Knoebels to a certain extent) do a great job of.

I agree tremendously with this part:

The biggest sin ever done to the park is when they took out the river and the tree covered island. That barrier shaped the park and into distinctive areas. You really felt like you were going somewhere when you had to walk around, without seeing what was on the other side. Now with Nighthawk, Windseeker, and the Flyer in there, it just adds more continuous clutter. I love Fury the ride, but it's like a big freaking mountain.

I think you really nailed it with the way you phrased that. I study a lot of this kind of stuff for what I do professionally so it does frustrate me and I really appreciate parks that do a good job creating a sense of place. A lot of this is revisionist history, though, damage that was done long before Cedar Fair. I get the sense that Cedar Fair has a better understanding of these principles than Paramount did, but at the same time I don't know that you will ever really see what you want.

[tarheel1231]

I'd rather have a world class amusement park than a nature trail. But with all the extra attention being put into the park lately, I'd worry not about greenery and landscaping. And sure, the front of the park looks barren now, but wait until 15 years have passed and it will look as beautiful as the old entrance.

[Tosu97]

The existence of Nighthawk at Carowinds is the biggest mistake in the entire 42 years. However I love what the park has become and will continue to move towards- but they better not touch Thunder Road.

[Jonathan]

I'd rather have a world class amusement park than a nature trail.

You guys love taking something someone says and exaggerating it drastically.

Also, one of the things that most of the world's top amusement parks have in common is that they do exactly what Capler is talking about.

The atmosphere and landscaping of Carowinds is not as good as many of the parks in the chain, namely Canada's Wonderland, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Cedar Point, and Worlds of Fun. Part of that is because of constraints that have existed since the park was built, but part of it is because of questionable decisions in recent years, many of which were made by Paramount and some by Cedar Fair as well.

[pproteinc]

I'm definitely on board with Capler and Jonathan. We just have to remember the teenagers do not care about green areas that much until the pass out from a heat stroke. I'm in my 20s and I'm all about high thrills and world class but we can have that and the 'PARK' aspect of it too. That's why I also appreciate Europa Park, Alton Towers, Busch Gardens, even Knoebels. They have high thrills but also have chill areas out of the sun where you can actually get your thoughts together. Next year I'll be at Liseburg in Sweden. That park looks wonderful just from the pics.

Could paramount have placed Nighthawk somewhere else most definitely, but I think it was the star attraction as a front gate statement. I for one do miss the river and the island and frequently walk to the water wheel and fountain are for 1) shade and 2) to gather me back together for a few minutes. However Cedar Fair is working with what the have they came into this massive parking lot and I feel they are trying to bring some green back. It's going to be hard to doso. I dont understand how Carowinds kept losing green but the other parks have areas of pure trees and water you can walk thru.

[Edwardo]

I don't like what the park became under Paramount, nor most of what it was under Bart Kinzel.

I have faith that Matt Oiumet, Mike Fehnel, and Jerry Helms, and the rest, will turn the park into what it can be. Sadly they only have what they have to work with.

[RollerBee]

I hate Intimidator's placement but I love the ride itself. To me it would have been better to keep Log Flume and build Intimidator behind it. Also placed it further into the parking lot. This would have resulted in relocation of the opposite picnic area and added more green space around Planet Snoopy. In my opinion, except for Nighthawk and Ricochet Paramount had a better placement concept than Cedar Fair. I believe that Paramount knew that Carowinds hadn't outgrown its footprint Yet and decided to keep the footprint.

That said, Ricochet would have better placed in the County Fair, the County Fair needed a revamp then. It still pretty much does, the addition of Southern Star and Yoyo helped regain what was lost but that it is.

On the topic of Nighthawk, it isn't the centerpiece Carowinds wanted it to be and I believe they knew not to long after opening it. As far as where it would be better placed, I can't think of a better place other than a scrapyard. The ride looks good but just isn't the great ride a Flying coaster could be.

I personally think the whole park is taking on a carnival appearance minus the new plaza. However with more proper landscaping and planning this could be fixed without moving rides. Skycoaster and Slingshot are great rides but I believe their placement makes the park look cluttered. Banshee I believe has done the same to Slingshot at Kings Island.

As far as quiet places in the park, Disneyland was designed with them but now they have discovered they can turn them into revenue producing spots. So it isn't like Carowinds is the only park that is starting to look congested.

Placement of Fury, I love how it goes with the new plazas, that big lawn in between the new walkways makes everything look nice and spread out, my only problem is with the que line being right up against the lift motor. However I believe they did the best they could with what space they had. I also think that ride capacity will be good enough that on most days, some or half of the que will be unneeded.

[Axel]

Placement of Fury, I love how it goes with the new plazas, that big lawn in between the new walkways makes everything look nice and spread out, my only problem is with the que line being right up against the lift motor. However I believe they did the best they could with what space they had. I also think that ride capacity will be good enough that on most days, some or half of the que will be unneeded.

They also need a better solution than running the Fury que line down and back along a muddy service road on busy days, with portable lights glaring at the end...

[Wormy]

DSCF0006.jpg (729.72KiB)Viewed 5258 times

One of the more intriguing threads here in a while.

Capler, I know exactly where you’re coming from. As much as I am for progress and the forward momentum that gratefully our park is now in abundance of, I too still have a foot in the past along with others who remember this place that captivated us in the 70s and 80s. Everywhere I look I see ghosts.

I would like to think that what has lacked in preservation over the years is now being made up in human interaction you don’t get online. Catch Uncle Jerry any given day walking around picking up trash - he doesn't have to, but he'll have stories. Mike keeping us in the loop during the off-season, (and hamming it up welcoming all through the toll plaza for preview night). Miss Eunice (tell her she’s doing a good job!), JT for hanging in there, landscapers, full-timers, construction crew, food staff, and anyone who's had the patience for Amos's endless interviews.

This kind of treatment is expected from family-owned parks, but rare and welcome from a corporate one to treat everyone who walks through the new gate like long-time friends. Most appreciated.

[Littlegiles]

So much that I agree with in many of the posts. I wasn't here in the 70s, 80's and most of the 90s. I moved to Charlotte in 96 and I know how much the area and everything around here has changed in the time since then. I honestly am not sure that Carowinds would still be around if CF hadn't taken over. I remember coming right after I moved here and being really disappointed in what it was. I grew up in DC and spent a lot of time at KD and BGW and I guess I was spoiled. I saw a park that was poorly landscaped, food wasn't good and rides seemed in need of some love. Perhaps I hit it at the worst time.

I don't think Carowinds is perfect now and I would love to see some theme work done, but I think it has vastly improved since 1996. I agree with Wormy that there is interaction with the staff that I have rarely witnessed from a park outside of Disney. Everything seems to be moving in the right direction, but unfortunately that often means changes. And with changes, there is often a sense of loss.

We hold on to the memories, photos and videos. Savor the fun and take advantage of what we have. Voice concerns and make positive suggestions. Praise the great and offer help and solutions for the bad. Together we can all make for a happy place.

[LocalYokel]

I've heard this discussion about almost everything in Charlotte. Carowinds reflects the surrounding area fairly well.

[kirkgun]

I've got no idea what Carowinds used to be.

I moved to Charlotte in 2012. I first went to Carowinds in 2012, and that was my only visit until Fury had been announced (and then I bought my 2015 season passels, and got a free bonus visit in the fall of 2014, with the season passes). And to be brutally and totally honest, without Fury, I would not have bought those season passes (and so I still would have only been there just one time, with no plans on returning).

I'm a pretty quiet person. I don't like crowds and noise and lines and lights and clutter (and basketballs getting bounced off my head). I enjoy quiet, shady parks. I don't go to malls. I avoid shopping centers at all costs (I love me some Amazon.com). Although I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of Carowinds, I've already discovered the shady mill area as place of refuge, and certainly wish for a few more quiet areas in the park. I haven't gone to Dinosaurs Alive yet, but I was thinking this might also be a place to get a little peace, as unpopular as it seems to be.

But "quiet spaces" is definitely NOT what made me exited for 2015 at Carowinds. My back yard has a bunch of trees. It's shady and cool. It's quiet. But it has no roller coasters.

So, I can relate, even if I have no idea what Carowinds used to be.

My vision of a perfect "amusement park" would have nothing but roller coasters and quiet "park" space in between with lots of trees and flowers. No games. No food carts. No souvenir shops. No water slides. No race cars. No old-timey cars. No old-time rock and roll shows. Just lots of trees and lots of roller coasters (and Fireworks to end every night ) ... sounds like heaven. But then my perfect amusement park would probably go out of business in its first year.

[RacerAlex]

@ Capler

I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote - although I'm not sure what can be done to correct it at this point in time.

Pat Hall's original park, brought to reality by the same designer's as Disney, was very well landscaped and themed. Even under King's Entertainment - where the park really started to grow with Thunder Road - the landscaping and theming was respected. Then Paramount bought them out and clearly had no love for the park's heritage - or the capital resources to truly grow the park properly. I didn't see the other K.E. parks suffer nearly as bad as Carowinds under Paramount's ownership (Although King's Dominion had its midway section ruined and Lake George basically reduced to a pond).

I really love the respect the vision Cedar Fair has for Carowinds. And everything they've done has been really, really, good. And I think the point of this thread is its a shame the landscape Cedar Fair has to mold retains the scarring of Paramount's ownership days. Cedar Fair is well on its way to making Carowinds world class. But its the little things missing like the lovely landscaping and water features, plus the transportation rides (Carolina Sternwheeler, Carowinds Railroad, Cable Skyway) and the historic rides like the carousel that today would underscore the park's place as a great world class theme park. And its a shame to know Carowinds HAD those things and Paramount simply demolished them to pour more concrete and asphalt, and lower operation costs.

Still, I think Cedar Fair will continue to make wholesale capital improvements. And with the international recognition Fury 325 will bring the park, I think C.F. will have the financial stability to slowly bring back some of the lost charm in time.

Pat Hall would be proud of their ownership.